Ideas for a TV table and "limited skills" builder

[jhl.verona]

I want to build a reasonably simple table which the TV will sit on, and all the electronic gizmos can be put on shelves underneath. Oh, and I want to hide the "rat's nest" of wiring too.

Here's what the actual setup (on a glass coffee table) looks like: just imagine that the TV is a flat screen about the same size (one day). The tape measure shows the length of the new table, and the grey blobs bottom left and right are bits of the sofa.

And here is an awful attempt at superimposing the new table: but at least it gives an idea, I hope...

I can't use SketchUp because there isn't a version for Linux, I've made a few drawings, but in any case I prefer to make a 1/4 scale model in balsa (working in wood, hah!), which also gives me an idea that I'll be able to 'get there'. The model went together very simply, so I'm (still) pretty confident.

Here's the model:

Side view: rear view: top view: bottom view: ...and reversed top:

The top must reverse, because my better half likes rearranging the furniture, and the table will look better this way in the opposite corner of the room (which is more or less square).

Also the top is 'oddly' cut because I'd like it to look like a solid hunk of wood, y'know, like the pros make - day-dreaming... Plus, as I can hardly get anything square anyway, it'll look 'artsy' and hide my lack of skill.

The problem is that I have no shop, and precious few tools. Also my skill level is, uhm, let's say starter level.

I can get some nice plywood (even marine) with a surface which is 'nobilitato' - the top veneer is a 'noble' wood, mahogany, for example. I like plywood because it comes in big sheets (I have hardly any glueing skills, and very few clamps, but I got me a saw). Of course the edges look awful, so I'm thinking of glueing on solid wood edges using a square section the same dimensions as the thickness of the ply.

Size: Table top l: 1600mm x w: 600 mm (at the widest) and 40 mm thick. That's roughly 63" x 24" x 1.5"

Base: l: 1000 mm x w: 400 mm h: 380 mm. Which is about 39" x 16" x 15"

The sides are the same material as the top, the shelves and dividers are 20 mm - 3/4"

So, Wood Talkers, am I heading in the right direction?

TIA

John

[klousiajp@gmail.com]

Looks like a good start to me, though I'm no pro.

A couple of things that jump out at me. You have varied thicknesses represented in the model, do you have access to all of the ply that you would need to get those relative thicknesses? Varying the boards adds interest so I like the idea.

Edge banding is a possibility, I'm using it now on a cabinet that is composed primarily of MDF and am getting pretty good results I think but the mitres around the odd angles you have are something you need to think about. Hardly impossible, but could be a challenge with limited tools etc.

Lastly, if you want to use Sketchup on Linux just install Wine. I've done it and it works like a charm.

[BillN]

Here are some thoughts. This looks like a pretty easy project, mostly square corners except for the top. Plywood is fine. My suggestion is that unless you are set up to cut big sheets of plywood, you have the big box stores cut the plywood parts to approximate size for you on their panel saw. Make sure you have the plywood facing the right way on their saw since they may chip the veneer if the cuts are close to finish dimensions. I suppose you could measure it out, tape the cut line with blue tape in the store and have them cut on that line - if they will permit that to avoid some chipping.

As to the edge, either iron on edge banding or put on solid wood. Either way you will have to bring the edge band to the same thickness as the ply or at least do so on the top edge. Iron on edge banding is easier because all it takes is a cheap plastic razor gizmo to get it close. Solid wood is going to require something beefier like a trim router.

Joinery - if you're a real rookie, try pocket screws. The screws act as both the joinery and assuming you are using glue, serve to clamp the parts together while the glue sets up. Lowes carries some of the Kreg pocket screw line. You can probably get started for under $50.00 or so. The tricky part is sticking the pockets where they won't show. You can even put on solid wood edge banding with pocket holes as long as it's about 3/4" thick. If the width of the edge banding is 1 1/2" wide (and this will help you hide those pockets) you can create the illusion of a much beefier slab than 3/4 ply, particularly if you can color match the ply. A wider edge band will also support more weight without sagging.

The reverse top is sort of weird. Is this like upside down? Wouldn't it be better if the top came off? Or is that what you planned?

Finish. If it's going to take any abuse use something with poly in it. If not, shellac is very easy, quick to dry and comparatively easy to repair.

Make sure you figure out exactly where you want the wiring to come out and how it works with the shelves. When you drill or cut the holes try to back up the cut so the veneer does not chip out as you exit the other side.

[Bombarde16]

Excellent project for a beginner with minimal tooling and I see you've already got a good eye for design in the shape of that top.

If all you have is a drill and a hammer, I'd go with through-dowels for the joinery on all these right angles. Start by gluing plain butt joints. (Yes, end grain butt joints. No structural strength whatsoever but we'll address that presently.) I presume also that you don't have an armada of clamps, so predrill small holes and use screws to hold the pieces together while the glue is drying.

Once the glue is dry, remove the screws and drill larger holes as deep as possible for some dowel stock. The only acquisition to your kit would be a simple block plane. (Around USD $30 at a big box store here in Illinois but plenty available online.) Once you get the hang of a block plane, you'll find yourself using it on every project from now until forever, so it's a good purchase. Add some glue, drive a dowel in, cut off what you can with the saw and then gently work down to the surface with the plane. Entirely legitimate solid wood joinery and plenty strong, so you can smile at the joinery snobs and tell them to go stick a hollow chisel where the Leigh jig doesn't shine.

I don't know what your access is to materials over there; but I'd be inclined to at least try for solid wood. Its more enjoyable to work with, you won't have to spend so much time edging the plywood and it looks better. Perhaps you can salvage a busted-up table top and cut it down to the size you want.

[Renov8r]

-What BillN said, "use pocket screws". I've seen pocket screws make guys with virtually no tools, look like a pro(sorta). But yes, I would have the big box or wherever you get your plywood from, cut it to your dimensions. Then get some iron-on edging, and a block of wood and some sandpaper. Now just a suggestion here(occupational plug) Maybe seek out a local sawyer in your area to find a nice thick piece of kiln-dried slab wood for the top! Then follow Marc's directions on finishing it...that would be a nice touch.

[Vic]

You're ahead of the curve already because you know the value of a scaled model. I would avoid using pocket screws for a nice piece of furniture. They're fine for shop stuff and cabinetry, but how much different would that be from just going to IKEA?

[daninhim]

I agree pocket screws would get you a long way, and disagree with Vic about the IKEA comments. With Ikea it's not about the joinery, it's about the wood. All their stuff is particle board with a cheap commercial finish. Use pocket screws but also use nice wood and take the time to put a beautiful finish on it, and THAT'S the difference between this project and IKEA. Oh, and glue helps too :-)

Now, the only problem with using Pocket screws on this job is there aren't really any hidden sides to the cabinet, so you'd either have to get creative with where you place them or use plugs to fill in the holes. In any case if you have no router or table saw to make dadoes, then pocket screws is a great way to go.

I didn't actually look too closely at the design but, having just finished building myself an entertainment unit, I have one suggestion on the design. Leave lots of room in the back, hidden, for both wires and a surge protector. But I'm sure you knew that already. Also if it wil lbe heavy, consider wheels so you can get at the wiring easily.

[Lawrence Brown]

Hmm, another option that wouldn't cost you much and would be a step up from pocket screws (which I also agree would be fine if they could be hidden) would be to use dowels. A basic doweling jig doesn't have to cost very much. Could probably even find a used one. dowel the top and insides and maybe use pocket screw just on the underside of the bottom piece to help pull the two sides in. Glue in all the dowels should do the rest.

[PaulMarcel]

If you have access to a drill press, you could even forgoe the dowel jig and use dowel centers. They are little plugs you put in a hole that have a pointy tip to them. Idea would be to drill, say, a 1/4" diameter hole in one part, place a center in it, then place the mating piece on top. Give it a couple light taps so the point leaves a good mark. Now, drill where the mark is for the other side of the joint. Very easy to use. If you don't have a drill press, you could make the second hole (one marked by the dowel center) a hair larger (5/16"?). Glue it up by dipping a dowel in glue, insert, and join. If you made the second hole larger, use a polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue) as it will expand and gap-fill while still being strong. Crazy trivial to do. Only requires the centers (cheap) and a drill. I've resorted to this on a couple projects.

You could use store-bought dowel rods and cut them to length but the ones intended for joinery (25-50mm long) wtih a spiral glue groove are even better.

I'll be among the first to admit that I think Ikea has some great designs. Their intention was never to make high-end furniture and they strike a nice balance. Guess I'm banned now

I used pocket screws once on shelves in my shop and I still see those &%$* holes whenever I look at it. Only use them now for things where the screws will be completely hidden. They're a good but aesthetically displeasing idea.

Edit: just noticed that was my 666th post. Interesting coincidence I was being a bit of a devil's advocate for Ikea in that evil post

Edited October 8, 2010 by Paul-Marcel
Noticed "number of the Ikea"

[tenonman]

I want to build a reasonably simple table which the TV will sit on, and all the electronic gizmos can be put on shelves underneath. Oh, and I want to hide the "rat's nest" of wiring too.

Here's what the actual setup (on a glass coffee table) looks like: just imagine that the TV is a flat screen about the same size (one day). The tape measure shows the length of the new table, and the grey blobs bottom left and right are bits of the sofa.

And here is an awful attempt at superimposing the new table: but at least it gives an idea, I hope...

I can't use SketchUp because there isn't a version for Linux, I've made a few drawings, but in any case I prefer to make a 1/4 scale model in balsa (working in wood, hah!), which also gives me an idea that I'll be able to 'get there'. The model went together very simply, so I'm (still) pretty confident.

Here's the model:

Side view: rear view: top view: bottom view: ...and reversed top:

The top must reverse, because my better half likes rearranging the furniture, and the table will look better this way in the opposite corner of the room (which is more or less square).

Also the top is 'oddly' cut because I'd like it to look like a solid hunk of wood, y'know, like the pros make - day-dreaming... Plus, as I can hardly get anything square anyway, it'll look 'artsy' and hide my lack of skill.

The problem is that I have no shop, and precious few tools. Also my skill level is, uhm, let's say starter level.

I can get some nice plywood (even marine) with a surface which is 'nobilitato' - the top veneer is a 'noble' wood, mahogany, for example. I like plywood because it comes in big sheets (I have hardly any glueing skills, and very few clamps, but I got me a saw). Of course the edges look awful, so I'm thinking of glueing on solid wood edges using a square section the same dimensions as the thickness of the ply.

Size: Table top l: 1600mm x w: 600 mm (at the widest) and 40 mm thick. That's roughly 63" x 24" x 1.5"

Base: l: 1000 mm x w: 400 mm h: 380 mm. Which is about 39" x 16" x 15"

The sides are the same material as the top, the shelves and dividers are 20 mm - 3/4"

So, Wood Talkers, am I heading in the right direction?

TIA

John

[tenonman]

Have you looked at this thewoodwhisperer.com/low-entertainment-center?Mark uses very few tools and is called "I CAN DO" project.If nothing else you might get some ideas for what you want.

[jhl.verona]

Part 1 of 3.

Thank you all for your replies. I am overwhelmed - in more ways than one. I'll have lots of questions as I get to the tricky bits (Joinery and Construction, Finishing), but you've all either given me new ideas, or reinforced my own.

A couple of things that jump out at me. You have varied thicknesses represented in the model, do you have access to all of the ply that you would need to get those relative thicknesses? Varying the boards adds interest so I like the idea.

There are only two thicknesses 40 mm and 20 mm (about 1 1/2" and 3/4"). They're standard measurements, or 18 and 35 mm, something like that. Should do the job.

Edge banding is a possibility, I'm using it now on a cabinet that is composed primarily of MDF and am getting pretty good results I think but the mitres around the odd angles you have are something you need to think about. Hardly impossible, but could be a challenge with limited tools etc.

True, very true. Actually a challenge for my limited skills. Clamping (yes, I'll buy some) will be fun too. I'll be back for suggestions on that one.

Lastly, if you want to use Sketchup on Linux just install Wine. I've done it and it works like a charm.

Damn. There goes my excuse. I have Wine installed, nice to know that it can power Sketchup. What other excuse can I use now?

... This looks like a pretty easy project, mostly square corners except for the top. Plywood is fine.

Doing my best to stay within my limits...

My suggestion is that unless you are set up to cut big sheets of plywood, you have the big box stores cut the plywood parts to approximate size for you on their panel saw.

Absolutely. There is a specialised shop in Verona, and a big manufacturer in Mantova (about 40 Km), just not quite sure how careful they'll be, so I'll probably quote them oversize about 10 mm.

As to the edge, either iron on edge banding or put on solid wood. Either way you will have to bring the edge band to the same thickness as the ply or at least do so on the top edge. Iron on edge banding is easier because all it takes is a cheap plastic razor gizmo to get it close. Solid wood is going to require something beefier like a trim router.

Agreed. Saw Marc's "extreme ironing" video. But I'd like to go for wood, and I have a hand held plunge router, so I won't mind shopping for bits.

Joinery - if you're a real rookie, try pocket screws... A wider edge band will also support more weight without sagging.

One man and his router - I was thinking of a dado (I hope you understand what I'm trying to say) for everything, except the top. I'll cut a 3-5 mm trough in the sides/back wide enough to accept the shelves/bottom. There's no weight involved (famous last words). The shelves will weigh more than the electronics they'll support, and the TV sits over one of the 40 mm thick sides. The top will be heavy but it sits on both 40 mm supports. No, you can't sit on it. I'll add barbed wire.

The reverse top is sort of weird. Is this like upside down? Wouldn't it be better if the top came off? Or is that what you planned?

Not upside down. Today long end on the left. Lift (with a friend probably) rotate 180 degrees - shuffling around the base - set down again. Now the long end's on the right. Yes, the top has to come off - I'm thinking of 10 mm diameter dowels in the sides which just go into the top about 5 mm - enough to stop the top sliding. The top's weight (plus the TV) should keep it in place afterwards. No sitting allowed.

Finish. If it's going to take any abuse use something with poly in it. If not, shellac is very easy, quick to dry and comparatively easy to repair.

Oh yes. It'll need a tough as nails finish - I have two teenagers (actually close to their 20's) who are as gentle as a herd of elephants.

Make sure you figure out exactly where you want the wiring to come out and how it works with the shelves. When you drill or cut the holes try to back up the cut so the veneer does not chip out as you exit the other side.

Another good point. I want the holes (more of a rectangle really) just above the shelf, so they're hidden by the electronic boxes. The back (see the rear view image) has a 100 mm (about 4") lip where I can stuff the extra wiring, power strip and extension cable.

[jhl.verona]

Part 2 of 3. This is Wordpress isn't it?

If all you have is a drill and a hammer, I'd go with through-dowels for the joinery on all these right angles. Start by gluing plain butt joints. (Yes, end grain butt joints. No structural strength whatsoever but we'll address that presently.) I presume also that you don't have an armada of clamps, so predrill small holes and use screws to hold the pieces together while the glue is drying.

Got a plunge router too, you know! I said dados cut with the router above, but I am very keen on the dowel idea, certainly sounds easier - could they be blind, just going half way into the sides/bottom? Methinks yes.

... The only acquisition to your kit would be a simple block plane. (Around USD $30 at a big box store here in Illinois but plenty available online.) Once you get the hang of a block plane, you'll find yourself using it on every project from now until forever, so it's a good purchase.

Yes I'd love a plane and a few chisels. Problem is I'd need to get whetting stones (if that's what they're called) too. It's a small closet, and there's no way that stuff is going in the cellar. I'll think about it though. (I'm one of those types that didn't know till yesterday that you can't use a chisel straight from the store - grinding is not honing). But when I get to those odd angles on the top...

...tell them to go stick a hollow chisel where the Leigh jig doesn't shine.

Now that definitely deserves translating into Italian.

I don't know what your access is to materials over there; but I'd be inclined to at least try for solid wood. Perhaps you can salvage a busted-up table top and cut it down to the size you want.

Well, there's the language barrier too (also a Marc videos production) and I'll be getting all those blank looks in fluent Italian (same blank look, but more arm waving). I'm not even sure I can remember half the common wood species in Italian (or even English for that matter). I'd need it cut and planed too. I think I'll wait untill the next project - he who fights and runs away...

...Now just a suggestion here(occupational plug) Maybe seek out a local sawyer in your area to find a nice thick piece of kiln-dried slab wood for the top! Then follow Marc's directions on finishing it...that would be a nice touch.

Wouldn't it just. I keep looking at those tables that Dorset Custom Furniture make. Sigh, but a little voice keeps saying "not going to happen". Also I have to be a little careful not to crowd out that round table to the right. So a sort of 'light' heaviness is required. Tricky...

You're ahead of the curve already because you know the value of a scaled model. I would avoid using pocket screws for a nice piece of furniture. They're fine for shop stuff and cabinetry, but how much different would that be from just going to IKEA?

Nah, just like the excuse to play around with Balsa (again). IKEA? They make furniture? Let me look them up on Google maps perhaps there's one near me.

...IKEA...All their stuff is particle board with a cheap commercial finish. Use pocket screws but also use nice wood and take the time to put a beautiful finish on it, and THAT'S the difference between this project and IKEA. Oh, and glue helps too :-)

Oh, so they recycle wood do they. How very ecological of them.

Glue? OK I'll put that on my check list.

In any case if you have no router or table saw to make dadoes, then pocket screws is a great way to go.

No router table, but a plunge router. With a 5 page manual. Right now, blind dowels are winning on simplicity.

I didn't actually look too closely at the design but, having just finished building myself an entertainment unit, I have one suggestion on the design. Leave lots of room in the back, hidden, for both wires and a surge protector. But I'm sure you knew that already. Also if it wil lbe heavy, consider wheels so you can get at the wiring easily.

I can't really call it an entertainment unit, but yes, there's 4" behind the back panel for the rat's nest. Heavy yes, but the floor is polished marble, so I'll skip the wheels (though I hear distant alarm bells).

[jhl.verona]

Part 3 of 3.

Hmm, another option that wouldn't cost you much ... would be to use dowels. A basic doweling jig doesn't have to cost very much... Glue in all the dowels should do the rest.

And the winner is - dowels. I think you've really all convinced me on that. But would I need a jig? Careful hand drilling? Am I being a Luddite?

If you have access to a drill press, you could even forgoe the dowel jig and use dowel centers. They are little plugs you put in a hole that have a pointy tip to them. Idea would be to drill, say, a 1/4" diameter hole in one part, place a center in it, then place the mating piece on top. Give it a couple light taps so the point leaves a good mark. Now, drill where the mark is for the other side of the joint. Very easy to use. If you don't have a drill press, you could make the second hole (one marked by the dowel center) a hair larger (5/16"?). Glue it up by dipping a dowel in glue, insert, and join. If you made the second hole larger, use a polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue) as it will expand and gap-fill while still being strong. Crazy trivial to do. Only requires the centers (cheap) and a drill. I've resorted to this on a couple projects.

Poetry, I hear poetry. Actually I do have access to a drill press (via an unusual social networking mechanism - called a friend) but maybe this can be done with a hand drill? Don't fancy lugging all that wood across town. Dowels are usually slightly smaller than advertised I believe. Crazy trivial is music to my ears.

You could use store-bought dowel rods and cut them to length but the ones intended for joinery (25-50mm long) wtih a spiral glue groove are even better.

Didn't know about the spiral dowels, thanks - I'll look out for them.

I'll be among the first to admit that I think Ikea has some great designs. Their intention was never to make high-end furniture and they strike a nice balance. Guess I'm banned now

Well, yes, the Architects they hire make great designs, I agree. My intention is the same.

I used pocket screws once on shelves in my shop and I still see those &%$* holes whenever I look at it. Only use them now for things where the screws will be completely hidden. They're a good but aesthetically displeasing idea.

Plan B then, if the dowels fall apart.

Have you looked at this thewoodwhisperer.com/low-entertainment-center?Mark uses very few tools and is called "I CAN DO" project.If nothing else you might get some ideas for what you want.

Yes I did. Don't have a circular saw. OK lame excuse. Three tools, and a guy that knows what he's doing. Now, I can buy a circular saw, but...

Actually that's where I stole borrowed some of the ideas. Doors frighten me a bit, so I'm using an open front design, you know, for the remote controls, air circulation, can't think of a third excuse...

[Vic]

If you have access to a drill press, you could even forgoe the dowel jig and use dowel centers. They are little plugs you put in a hole that have a pointy tip to them. Idea would be to drill, say, a 1/4" diameter hole in one part, place a center in it, then place the mating piece on top. Give it a couple light taps so the point leaves a good mark. Now, drill where the mark is for the other side of the joint. Very easy to use. If you don't have a drill press, you could make the second hole (one marked by the dowel center) a hair larger (5/16"?). Glue it up by dipping a dowel in glue, insert, and join. If you made the second hole larger, use a polyurethane glue (Gorilla Glue) as it will expand and gap-fill while still being strong. Crazy trivial to do. Only requires the centers (cheap) and a drill. I've resorted to this on a couple projects.

You could use store-bought dowel rods and cut them to length but the ones intended for joinery (25-50mm long) wtih a spiral glue groove are even better.

I'll be among the first to admit that I think Ikea has some great designs. Their intention was never to make high-end furniture and they strike a nice balance. Guess I'm banned now

I used pocket screws once on shelves in my shop and I still see those &%$* holes whenever I look at it. Only use them now for things where the screws will be completely hidden. They're a good but aesthetically displeasing idea.

Edit: just noticed that was my 666th post. Interesting coincidence I was being a bit of a devil's advocate for Ikea in that evil post

You can still be my friend, Paul. I like many of IKEA's designs, too. I'm just not a fan of joint fasteners. Maybe it's because while Sylvia has been waiting for me to build things, she's gone out and bought a bunch of stuff from there, HD Designs, etc. I always have to put the things together and I cry the whole time. But, it IS my fault.

[PaulMarcel]

So I normally put links in my posts, but was fighting with an NFS/NIS issue last night.

Anyway, here's a link to dowel centers so you see what they are. No need to get them from Lee Valley when you're out in Italy, but the picture should work at a nearby store.

You certainly could use a hand drill (powered or "hand" hand drill). The holes you're making aren't really terribly deep and they should be blind anyway.

These are the spiral dowels I was talking about. Again, the picture should work for you. I get a bag once in awhile and they are very useful for the few times I feel the need for a dowel. Yes, you're right that dowel stock is rarely the intended size due to drying and shrinkage; it's also why it isn't round anymore. For that reason, I nearly always use Gorilla Glue (or other poly urethane or even epoxy glue; you need gap filling).

It seems like a lot of doweling jigs are pretty pricey for what they are (Dowel Max comes to mind). When I watched Marc's video demonstrating its use, all I could think of was "reconfiguration hell", but I have a low tolerance for reconfiguration because 9 out of 10 I screw it up

Edit: I used dowel centers when I refaced a friend's stairs. While the staircase aspect is of no interest here, my blog entry on it does have a lot of photos and text about using the dowel centers. They are so simple but work so well.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Paul-Marcel
Added link for the stair entry

[jhl.verona]

So I normally put links in my posts, but was fighting with an NFS/NIS issue last night.

Who won? RFC1925?

Edit: I used dowel centers when I refaced a friend's stairs. While the staircase aspect is of no interest here, my blog entry on it does have a lot of photos and text about using the dowel centers. They are so simple but work so well.

Thanks for the update - and private message. Looks fool-proof, but I'm a better fool...

John