gracyon Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Hey all, Today on Twitter, several of us were discussing the new Bosch Glider Saw. If you're not familiar with it, it's a new Dual-Bevel Miter box with a very unique "Gliding Arm". We just got it in at Wood Werks, and we've been demoing it at our Expo all weekend. So far it's a hit with the crowd here. (It really is an epic looking tool) A question was posted on Twitter about it's dust collection, and specifically how it compares to the Kapex. So I offered to head out to the floor, and hook up a CT 36 to the new Bosch and see how it did. The short answer... not good. We had a 3x3 block of hardwood, and were careful to clean up the area before we cut. As soon as it began to cut, it was obvious there was something wrong. There was dust everywhere. The air was thick with it. We noticed that the dust scoop was actually closing under the suction of the CT 36. In the following pic, the CT 36 is turned off on the left, but turned on, on the right. We were able to get it to stay open by turning the suction down on the CT 36. (to about 2/3 power) The air around the saw was still thick with dust, and the area around it looked like this after one cut: I called Bosch and they suggested two things. 1. The block of wood was too big, suggesting that any miter saw would make a mess with a 3x3. 2. The hood closing is a known issue, and they plan to fix it. (They didn't say how they'd fix it) So... I dragged the CT 36 back over to the Kapex, and brought the 3x3 block with me. After cutting the block, there was no noticeable dust in the air (at all) and the area around the saw looked just about the same as before: Mind you, I had a crowd of people around me during both tests, and everyone saw a SIGNIFICANT difference. That's when I took a closer look at the dust hood on the Kapex. It's huge. And it's got to be 4-6 times thicker than the one on the Glide. I adjusted the following images to exact scale, so you can see the difference: Now, I will be the first person to tell you that this was FAR from a scientific test. I tried to be as fair as possible, using the same vac and block of wood. But this was hardly a controlled environment, and Bosch did say they are making changes. Hopefully a new hood will help. I also wanted to mention that on Bosch's website, they brag about a "Category Best 90% Dust Collection" which can't possibly be what we saw, so there's plenty of room for "user error" here. If Bosch suggests I do something different, I will. I'll check back here in case anyone has any questions or comments, or if you'd like to continue the conversation with us, you can find me on twitter here: @woodwerkssupply Thanks! Robert Smith rsmith@woodwerks.com www.woodwerks.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morton Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Rob -- thanks so much for posting this. Awesome test and real-world conditions. I love Bosch's first response "1. The block of wood was too big, suggesting that any miter saw would make a mess with a 3x3." Heh. Nice one. Looks like the Kapex is way better in this regard, not surprising, but good to have some side-by-side testing done. Thanks for the great pics and taking the time to compare. Morton++ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DALSAW Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Considering that the Kapex is about $1300.00 and the Bosch Glide is around $800.00, For the $500.00 in savings I can deal with some sawdust. It's not as bad as my Dewalt SCMS, that thing covers me up with saw dust even with my vac on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gracyon Posted October 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Considering that the Kapex is about $1300.00 and the Bosch Glide is around $800.00, For the $500.00 in savings I can deal with some sawdust. It's not as bad as my Dewalt SCMS, that thing covers me up with saw dust even with my vac on. Aaron, that's a very valid point as well. $500 is a lot of money. But beyond that, if Bosch says "90% dust collection", either they're wrong, or I'm doing something wrong. I have a Dewalt SCMS as well and for the price I paid, I expect it to make a mess. For $1300, yes it's nice to see it can actually pick up the dust, but I can't say the same for an $800 example? That's a tough pill. My Bosch rep knows about this, and has assured me that as soon as he hears about a "hood fix" he'll get me hooked up. I'll amend this post when that happens. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I was just walking around Wood Werks last Saturday looking to see if you had the new bosch yet. I'll be back again tomorrow for the Expo. I guess I'll have to add some more time to see the new saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gracyon Posted October 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I was just walking around Wood Werks last Saturday looking to see if you had the new bosch yet. I'll be back again tomorrow for the Expo. I guess I'll have to add some more time to see the new saw. It's here, and it's setup for you to try out yourself! If you do play with it, stop in my office and let me know what you think of it. (I'm in the fishbowl behind all of the monitors. You'll understand when you get here.) Enjoy the Expo tomorrow! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Considering that the Kapex is about $1300.00 and the Bosch Glide is around $800.00, For the $500.00 in savings I can deal with some sawdust. It's not as bad as my Dewalt SCMS, that thing covers me up with saw dust even with my vac on. Aaron, Here's my DC hood for the DeWalt SCMS. It gets all the possible airborne stuff and a decent amount of the heavier particles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyami Plotke Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Rob, I finally had a chance to read this. Thank you for the test & comparison. While I must admit that dust collection is not a trait I expect in a SCMS, it's a nice bonus. As for the Bosch, I think a little duct tape extension on their dust shroud would probably go a long way. What did you think of the accuracy of the Bosch? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Rob, I finally had a chance to read this. Thank you for the test & comparison. While I must admit that dust collection is not a trait I expect in a SCMS, it's a nice bonus. As for the Bosch, I think a little duct tape extension on their dust shroud would probably go a long way. What did you think of the accuracy of the Bosch? You still waiting for your's, Dyami? I've been waiting for your review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyami Plotke Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 You still waiting for your's, Dyami? I've been waiting for your review. Vic, I haven't ordered mine yet. I'm 80% sure I'll be getting the Bosch glide, but the head on the unit I played with briefly had some wiggle. I want to confirm that's not an issue before I buy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morton Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Aaron, Here's my DC hood for the DeWalt SCMS. It gets all the possible airborne stuff and a decent amount of the heavier particles. Vic -- thanks for the pic, awesome. I'm definitely building one like that. Just not sure if I'll also include a place for a shopvac as well (hooked directly to saw). Seen a setup like that and it looks great - but yours looks pretty simple. Where is the dust collector hose come in: at the back, or at the bottom (of the back)? Morton++ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Vic -- thanks for the pic, awesome. I'm definitely building one like that. Just not sure if I'll also include a place for a shopvac as well (hooked directly to saw). Seen a setup like that and it looks great - but yours looks pretty simple. Where is the dust collector hose come in: at the back, or at the bottom (of the back)? Morton++ Here's a side pic. My 3HP Dust Gorilla is on the other side of the wall, so suction is at it's best here. A down draft would work slightly better and this is the only one in my shop that doesn't come up through the floor. Figures, huh?! Even if I did a down draft, I would keep the positioning due to the debris path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon_WI Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 When you did the test on the Kapex did you have the CT 36 at full power or at the same 2/3 power you had it running at for the Bosch test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DALSAW Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Aaron, Here's my DC hood for the DeWalt SCMS. It gets all the possible airborne stuff and a decent amount of the heavier particles. I would have to come up with a stand or some way of mounting something like that, my SCMS is on a dewalt stand I haven't got around to building a work station for it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 I would have to come up with a stand or some way of mounting something like that, my SCMS is on a dewalt stand I haven't got around to building a work station for it yet. This hood would be even more functional on a stand, as you could get even closer in at extreme angles. I can in pretty good because of the T track set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikbrown Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Thanks for posting this. I love my Bosch tools and was really hoping that this saw would be added to my shop... looks like I'll wait for v2... or dip a tow into the vortex of festool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morton Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Thanks for posting this. I love my Bosch tools and was really hoping that this saw would be added to my shop... looks like I'll wait for v2... or dip a tow into the vortex of festool. They'll grab you by that toe and pull you under. Trust me. I've got a lot of systainer boxes now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyami Plotke Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Nik, Having played with both a lot, I'd say only go Festool if you bring the saw into customers homes. In a shop the smaller footprint of the Bosch more than makes up for the dust collection deficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Slack Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Well, at least we know that Festool delivers. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markhochstein Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 Since this thread appears to be creeping a little towards SCMS dust collection I thought I'd throw my solution out there too. It's much like Vic's but executed a little differently. In my last shop the SCMS was THE dustmaker. This time I was determined to minimize it. This setup captures about 70% of the dust with no vac attached, but when I hook my DCS up tot he 4" port the it pulls in about 90-95%. The whole thing is make from 1/8" hardboard with reinforcing strips at the corners and across the top of the front. The plastic is floor runner material - available by the foot at the big box stores. It used it so that I can still use the saw beveled as well as pivoted. I think that if you're going to take your SCMS into someones house to work on trim etc, the the Kapex is the best there is, but if your saw will remain in your shop then there are MUCH less expensive ways to go. Sorry for the big DCS filter bag in the way. I'm not home or I'd just take another picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyami Plotke Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 Since this thread appears to be creeping a little towards SCMS dust collection I thought I'd throw my solution out there too. It's much like Vic's but executed a little differently. In my last shop the SCMS was THE dustmaker. This time I was determined to minimize it. This setup captures about 70% of the dust with no vac attached, but when I hook my DCS up tot he 4" port the it pulls in about 90-95%. The whole thing is make from 1/8" hardboard with reinforcing strips at the corners and across the top of the front. The plastic is floor runner material - available by the foot at the big box stores. It used it so that I can still use the saw beveled as well as pivoted. I think that if you're going to take your SCMS into someones house to work on trim etc, the the Kapex is the best there is, but if your saw will remain in your shop then there are MUCH less expensive ways to go. Sorry for the big DCS filter bag in the way. I'm not home or I'd just take another picture. I like the plastic sheeting. Very nice idea to the standard "big funnel behind the saw" idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 It's here, and it's setup for you to try out yourself! If you do play with it, stop in my office and let me know what you think of it. (I'm in the fishbowl behind all of the monitors. You'll understand when you get here.) Enjoy the Expo tomorrow! Rob I just got to play with it for a minute, someone was camped out in front talking. The arm on it really pulled out easy, i was expecting a little more force required to pull it back. I grabbed the handle and gave it a shake, it didn't feel loose at all. It actually shook the table it was sitting on. Bosch guy looked me kinda weird when I did that. Ohh well...must have been the systainer under my arm. Morton doesn't lie! I'm just now starting to figure out the Festool "system". I'm going to have to talk to Boom about putting a spousal block on my account at Wood Werks. I keep telling her it's the wood prices that are so high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autorotate Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 Hi Loogie thats a great idea with the plastic strips covering your box. I've been wanting to put somthing over mine to keep the dust inside it. I'm going to add that to mine this week. I,m also going to order the Bosch saw this week too. The festool looks great but I really want a 12in saw. THANKS for the pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyami Plotke Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 Hi Loogie thats a great idea with the plastic strips covering your box. I've been wanting to put somthing over mine to keep the dust inside it. I'm going to add that to mine this week. I,m also going to order the Bosch saw this week too. The festool looks great but I really want a 12in saw. THANKS for the pic. Bart, It'll probably be a few weeks before I order my new SCMS. Please share your review of the new Bosch once you get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morton Posted October 18, 2010 Report Share Posted October 18, 2010 The plastic is floor runner material - available by the foot at the big box stores. It used it so that I can still use the saw beveled as well as pivoted. That sheeting is awesome. You guys are definitely encouraging me to get something done about my own SCMS. It's by FAR the worst dust offender in my shop. Love that it works for you with no dust collector, because honestly that's the biggest hurdle for me right now - stringing my roll-around dust collector (just in the wrong part of the shop to be easy). May throw together and try without dust collector and at least keep more of the dust contained. Morton++ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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