Considering a SawStop.....

[Nick2cd]

I am thinking of purchasing a sawstop contractors saw. it's difficult for me to pull the trigger on a saw that i know very little about. my sole purpose for considering it is the safety factor (obviously). i'd love to hear some feedback from owners or anyone who has used them. which fence system did you get? build quality? fit and finish? accuracy? pros and cons?

[harderd]

Read the link below, it may just pull the tigger for you. My next saw will be a sawstop unless someone else starts selling similar technology.

[dtrust]

Don't know how close you are to a Rockler store, but the local one here in Pittsburgh, PA is going to have a demo of the Sawstop in January.

Maybe check your local store to see if it's happening there? Would at least give you a up-close view of one.

My next saw will be a Sawstop. I've read good things about them, with very few exceptions. The exceptions having to do with it maybe 'going off' without actually having a finger touch it. Personally, unless it's really excessive, I'd like the thing to err on the side of caution, as I've become attached to my extremities over the years.

[Beechwood Chip]

This is what I told Nick privately, so I might as well put it in the thread:

I had the same problem. I decided that I was willing to pay $1500, but not $1700 (which was the base price before extras at the time). So, I bought a refurb Bosch 4100 for $380. I really loved the Bosch and was very happy. Then I put my finger in the blade.

Fortunately, the injury was very minor, but that was pure luck. I said to myself, "You didn't by a Sawstop because it was $200 over your self-imposed limit!!! You could have lost a finger!!! You idiot!!!"

So I ran out and bought the biggest Sawstop contractor saw with all the bell's and whistles. I kinda over-reacted a little, but I'm not sorry that I have the Sawstop.

One of the deciding factors, for me, was thinking not about my own injury but of a friend's, or worse, a friend's kid. My friends come over when they need "just a couple of cuts", and sooner or later their kids (my god-kids) may want me to show them how to make something. If they got hurt because I wanted to save a few hundred dollars, I'd have a hard time living with myself.

I've got the Sawstop contractor saw with 52" rails and the T-glide fence. I also got cast iron wings, the outfeed table, and the mobile base.

Overall, I really like it, but I did have a little "buyer's remorse" when I first got it. Here are some things I would consider if I was doing it over:

I got the 52" rails, and it's a little too big for my shop. I should have drawn some floor plans before deciding which rails to get.

I figured that I wanted the contractor saw because it was less expensive than the cabinet saw. By the time I added in all the extras, it was pretty pricey. I probably would have gotten the contractor saw anyway, but I should have compared the cost of the cabinet saw with the options to the contractor with the options.

You can build an outfeed table easily, and maybe build in some storage or a router table. I was just tired of doing "shop projects" so I bought the table instead.

It takes two people and several hours to put the thing together. All that cast iron is heavy!

The mobile base is great - really comes in handy even though I'm not going to move it every time I use it.

I bought an extra brake module, and a dado brake module, and two zero clearance inserts. I'm happy that I did. It's never "fired" on me, but if it does, I may want to "get back on that horse" right away rather than having to wait for a new brake module.

The T-glide fence is fine - I have no complaints. I don't have a lot to compare it too, but I can't imagine a better fence.

The dust collection hookup under the table is awkwardly placed and angled. What I ended up doing was connecting a short piece of flex hose to it with a "splice" at the other end. That way, I can hook whatever I want to the splice without having to lie down on the floor to try to get at the port under the table. I wish that they had pointed the dust collection port out under the extension. It points out under the "short" side of the saw.

Oh, the blade guard would catch a little as the wood slid under it, but I took some sandpaper and smoothed out a tiny burr in the plastic, and that problem went away.

Other than those two minor issues, the fit and finish, quality, and construction is great! The assembly instructions couldn't be more clear.

(But I should mention that I've never used any other table saw that cost over $1000.)

[flairwoodworks]

I am thinking of purchasing a sawstop contractors saw. it's difficult for me to pull the trigger on a saw that i know very little about. my sole purpose for considering it is the safety factor (obviously). i'd love to hear some feedback from owners or anyone who has used them. which fence system did you get? build quality? fit and finish? accuracy? pros and cons?

I use the Sawstop Industrial at the local Lee Valley where I teach a Table Saw Basics class. It's a nice saw - well machined and thought out. All the tolerances of the saw are very high, and what they don't advertise is how you can make all kinds of adjustments that (to my knowledge) other saws don't enable you to. Adjustments like the blade tilt axis or the amount of backlash in the threads. These adjustments are all factory-set, but are adjustable for those who are so inclined to do so. On the newer saws, they have upgraded the zero-clearance insert - it is now a simple finger-lift whereas it used to require a hex wrench to remove a bolt. All the regualar adjustments (fence, tilt, height) are smooth and easy and the riving knife can be removed with just a lift of a lever from the top of the saw through the throat.

My only quibble with the saw (aside from no sliding table!) is that if you accidently bump the off switch when running the saw, you have to let it come to a complete stop before you can turn it back on.

[ddg]

Nick,

I’ve had my SS contractor saw for about 1 1/2 years now, and love it. It has the 30” upgraded fence, cast iron wings, mobile base, and the dust collection panel (I had to explain what it was to Woodcraft when I ordered the saw). There is some dust left on the floor after I use the saw, but hardly anything compared to my old saw without any dust collection. The saw pushes the dust out, and I’ve noticed the bag on my dust collector inflate when I turn on my saw on when I’ve forgotten to turn on the collector.

I checked the blade alignment when I put the saw together and it was dead on. I didn't need to adjust anything.

I learned to build in a production environment, in my Dad’s cabinet shop, using table saws with the motors under the blades like a Unisaw. I was used to pushing the stock through the blade and letting the end fall to the floor. The first time I tried it with the contractor saw it hit the motor and dented the board. So, old dog, new trick, safer work practice and a roller to catch the wood. If I had the room, I’d make an outfeed table.

The only potential drawback was the benefit for me, running the saw at the 120 V. Although it’s been able to cut everything I’ve thrown at it (the thickest so far is 8/4 red oak, I work a lot with 5/4 QSWO), at 120 V, you can’t push the stock through the blade fast, like a production shop. That’s not a problem unless you are trying to make a living at the craft. Just pay attention to your feed rate and you shouldn’t have any problems.

Note – my hope for rewiring to 240 V - When my Dad retired, he took the Unisaw home, rewired it to 120 V and hated the way it cut. He changed it back to 240 V and he was back to the old saw again. When we move to another house, and have the breaker capacity, I will rewire the SS to 240 V and hopefully increase the saws feed rate.

If I was going to buy a saw today… The contractor saw has done everything I’ve needed. But that new 1.75 HP Professional saw sure looks good because I could run it at 120 V now. But then again I’d still be pushing stock through the blade and letting the end fall to the floor.

I just picked up a Forrest thin kerf blade for the saw. I checked with SS before I ordered the blade. I wanted to make sure there would not be any problems. They said some thin kerf blades do not have enough blade strengh to withstand a brake firing, but the Forrest blade does.

Good Luck,

[Danny Hellyar]

Nick, you certainly couldn't go wrong purchasing a "Saw Stop" saw of any kind. They are well made and have a safety feature that no other saw has. But I wouldn't base my decision on that alone. There are many well made saws on the market with features that you might like better. For example the new Delta Unisaws have their blade tilting and blade raising handles on the front side of the saw. Personally I like that feature. I've used a "Powermatic" 66 for years and it has been absolutely flawless. Not sure if they even make the American version any longer. The newer ones don't seem to be as good a quality. Personally I think I'd be afraid to own the "Saw Stop" , because I think I would probably be prone to setting it off accidentally and have to replace my blade more often than I'd like. I also like the Granite table tops that are on the "Steel City" saws. It's a fact that granite is flatter, stronger and heavier than cast iron. Plus you'll never have to worry about or clean off any rust. That would be a very good thing to have ,especially if you live in a humid or damp climate. Grizzly also has a nice roundup of table saws these days and their tools have proven themselves over the years. I see there 19" band saw was just given the top tool honor in the current issue of Fine Woodworking magazine. And you won't find any better customer service than Grizzly. I've been in the woodworking business for well over 20 years and Grizzly has always bent over backwards to satisfy any issues I've had. If your a patient man and not in a hurry to purchase it would be good if you could go attend one of the big wood shows where they actually have all the different brands that you could try out. The Vegas show happens in August, but there may be one sooner in another location. I still have and use my "Powermatic 66", but I also have a MiniMax horizontal panel saw for accuracy and speed in processing panel materials, features you just can't get in any regular table saw, no matter how much you try and modify them. Hope this helps and good luck with your decision.

[BenMinshall]

Something else to consider on the financial side is how good of health insurance you have. If you have none, minimal coverage or high deducible even a small treatable injury at the E.R. is going to be at least $1,000. A larger injury will be well into the thousands to have a hand surgeon fix assuming you don't have the worst case of some type of amputation. Consider the higher price on the Saw Stop as a type of health insurance premium potentially saving thousands from a future injury. Someday when I have the square footage to host a proper table saw, a Saw Stop model will be at the top of my list.

[Dyami Plotke]

Nick,

I'll second everyone's comments. Having watched as a friend took 2 fingers off with a tablesaw, I don't think you can put a price on the safety Saw Stop offers. Especially since their build quality seems to be on par with Powermatic & Delta.

[Nick2cd]

Nick,

I'll second everyone's comments. Having watched as a friend took 2 fingers off with a tablesaw, I don't think you can put a price on the safety Saw Stop offers. Especially since their build quality seems to be on par with Powermatic & Delta.

i completely agree with your statement.

[Jerry_in_SD]

Sorry, have to chime in as well. I can't say SS is any better or worse then a good Delta or Powermatic since I have not owned either after upgrading from a Delta contractor's saw. However, I am very pleased with the SS professional cabinet saw which is not the contractors but I would expect quality to be the same.

I found the SS PCS to have a smaller footprint than a contractors saw -- same table dimensions with the benefit of no motor hanging off of the back. if space is a concern, you may want to think about the PCS.

[CaptFerd]

I bought the Saw Stop contractors style the week after my brother lost his fingers on a table saw. People with decades of experience lose fingers all the time. I have no complaints. The quality of the saw is up there with the best. Very accurate with every cut. Cant say enough.

Capt Ferd

[ChetlovesMer]

Nick,

I'll second everyone's comments. Having watched as a friend took 2 fingers off with a tablesaw, I don't think you can put a price on the safety Saw Stop offers. Especially since their build quality seems to be on par with Powermatic & Delta.

I'm late to this thread, but I disagree with the statement that SawStop quality is on par with Powermatic or Delta. I think SawStop quality is even higher. Plus there are at least a dozen reasons other than the safety feature that I believe the SawStop is better than any other saw out there. (I am speaking of my SawStop Cabinet Saw with a 52" Delta Unifence.)

1 – The dust collection is incredible. It may be equaled out there, but I can’t imagine there is anything better.

2 – The onboard computer has blink codes to tell you if something is wrong with your saw and what it is. (Up to and including a blink code letting you know the cabinet door is open.) At first I was nervous about this failing and causing my saw to be useless. But, after three years (including moving the saw twice to new locations) there have been no issues. If there are, there is an over-ride feature.

3 - The SawStop comes with the best manual I have ever seen... I don't just mean the best manual for a table saw or even the best manual for a tool... NO, I mean THE BEST MANUAL I'VE EVER SEEN! Plus, the manual is spiral bond laminate paper that lays flat if you want to read it or use it... I don't know... maybe ... IN THE SHOP!

4 – If you dial their help-line, you get a dude in the US… who is actually a woodworker, I like that. No offense to anyone who prefers to get somebody in Kazakhstan who’s never even seen a sheet of plywood.

5 – Because their arbor and trunions are designed to survive a million “Stops” they are way heavier than any of the others you see on the market. Big deal right? Well, I can tell you I tuned my saw the day I got it. (It needed almost none, so mostly it was a process of confirming it was tuned.) Since then I’ve moved my workshop twice. When I set up the saw for the third time in my new shop… You guess it, still tuned. My older cabinet saw would get out of tune if I ran too many pieces of heavy maple through it. This one seems to never vary from dead on.

6 - By the way, the heavier trunions and arbor also mean that the tilt and blade raise wheels are pnematically assisted. Which means it is really easy... I mean really easy to spin them. This feature alone makes the saw super-cool to use.

7 – Did I mention the dust collection?

8 – The riving knife system when I first got it was so easy to use it almost made me sick to think why didn’t somebody come up with this before? I think a few of the newer saws out there may be equal to it today.

9 - The riving knife is also attached to the blade arbor, meaning it's hight moves with the blade and the distance from the blade is fixed.

10 – Changing the blade is stupid simple. Wrenches wait for you on the side of the machine, ready and willing to change your blade. Even switching to a dado head, which requires a different brake pack can be done in less than a minute. (I can change my brake pack in about 5 seconds… seriously, I’ve timed it.)

11 – I don’t know if other saws have this or not, but there is a lockable turn lever on the side of the machine which disconnects power from the machine. This feature prevents accidently turning the machine on if you are tuning it, or making changes or something of that nature. (May also be helpful when my son, who is now 6 months, starts exploring my shop.)

12 – Oh and by the way, the blade stops spinning if you touch it. That may one day save my hand or finger.

As you can see, I love this saw. I would not recommend buying any other. I dropped about 4 grand on mine with everything I got when I bought it and every day I use it I think it was a bargain. My wife totally supported my purchase. Because when I told her it was going to be either the SawStop at 4 grand or another saw which would be 3300 to 3600, she said it was a no brainer. As usual, she was right.

[BikerDad]

I would also recommend the 1.75 Professional over the Contractors. As an undocumented feature (not a bug), I have confirmed with SawStop that in the event you can later upgade your power to use 240V, you can simply swap in the motor from the 3hp Professional saw. No other changes required. I've looked into this because I am currently limited to 120v, and would like to upgrade my saw (I have a Delta CS). The SS Professional 1.75 is the best option for me, essentially an "underpowered" cabinet saw, rather than a very, very expensive contractor's saw.

[JimB1]

I would also recommend the 1.75 Professional over the Contractors. As an undocumented feature (not a bug), I have confirmed with SawStop that in the event you can later upgade your power to use 240V, you can simply swap in the motor from the 3hp Professional saw. No other changes required. I've looked into this because I am currently limited to 120v, and would like to upgrade my saw (I have a Delta CS). The SS Professional 1.75 is the best option for me, essentially an "underpowered" cabinet saw, rather than a very, very expensive contractor's saw.

Now that is a great selling point, even more so then the blade brake (which is a great feature too). That might make it worthwhile to me. I am limited to 120v now too but hopefully at some point in the future we will get a house with a bigger shop area and I will be willing to get an electrician to wire me up for 240V.

-Jim

[PaulMarcel]

Might be worth calling them to see if the 1.75 PCS can be similarly converted to 3.0 PCS. It would make a great deal of sense. I was at a dealer show this past weekend and SawStop was there. I got to see the contractor model next to the PCS. The PCS has a smaller footprint because it doesn't have a motor out the back. The dust collection is supposed to be much better on the PCS (I know it is excellent on mine) than the contractors, but I can't say first hand as I didn't see them running the contractor's saw. The optional integrated mobile base for the PCS is top-shelf, too.

[amaonline]

Can't say enough good about my PCS. I also own a delta unisaw which is a good saw, but it is not the saw that the SS is.

I don't regret spending the money and would do it again in a heart beat! I would pay for the ss over the unisaw even without the safety mechanism!

[Brice_Arnold]

I know this is an old thread but I have recently been looking at the Saw Stops. I have been fortunate enough to never experience an injury that resulted in breaking the skin on a table saw. I use my splitter and blade guard when applicable. So here is my dilemma; I already own a 5HP Delta X5 Unisaw with all the bells and whistles. Have more than $4000 invested in the saw. If I really wanted to go with a saw stop is it worth it to dump the delta taking a significant hit on my investment and getting a saw-stop. I guess it comes down to how you define worth. There is obviously no price you can put on the value of keeping your fingers. However,if the operator works safely will they ever experience an accident? It seems like most of the accidents that occur could have been prevented with a little more prudence.

[Beechwood Chip]

There's no right answer to your question. I think if I already owned a high end table saw, and I wasn't teaching classes, had employees, or getting an insurance discount, then I wouldn't switch to a Saw Stop. I got my Saw Stop when I traded up from a portable, and in addition to the safety feature I got a general upgrade.

"It seems like most of the accidents that occur could have been prevented with a little more prudence" Well, yes, but just because, after the fact, you can see what stupid thing you did, doesn't mean that you won't do it. A better question to ask is, how many people had serious accidents who previously said, "However,if the operator works safely will they ever experience an accident? It seems like most of the accidents that occur could have been prevented with a little more prudence"

In my case, I stopped paying attention to the blade when I turned off the saw, then I was paying attention to the work-piece in my right hand and my left hand hit the still spinning blade. I had removed the blade guard to move the fence very close to the blade.

I had previously told people, "Always watch the blade/bit until it stops moving," and "Never remove the blade guard on a through cut." Still, I did just that and got cut. Luckily, the blade hit bone and didn't have enough force to cut/shatter the bone, so it was a very minor injury. But, it made me feel very stupid for deciding not to buy a SawStop a few months before.

(I decided to buy the SawStop contractor saw for $1500 when I first heard about it, and when it came out the price was $1700 and for some reason I said, "Oh, that's too much!")

And, before someone asks, yes, the SawStop feature would have worked when the blade was spinning down. The "brains" of the saw stop are still turned on when the motor is off.

[wilburpan]

However,if the operator works safely will they ever experience an accident? It seems like most of the accidents that occur could have been prevented with a little more prudence.

My day job brings me face to face with safety issues and protocols to prevent accidents every day. If the "little more prudence" theory of accident prevention actually worked, pilots wouldn't have checklists that need to be completed before taking off. At my work, we would do away with the double checks and cross checks that happen before giving chemotherapy to a kid. No one who deals with safety in a serious manner considers the "little more prudence" approach to safety to be anything but a bad idea.

To look at it another way: having a mechanism in your table saw that will prevent serious injury or an amputation if contact with the blade occurs is using a "little more prudence", at the very least.

The model of safe practice that is used views safety mechanisms as slices of swiss cheese, where each layer of safety blocks an accident from happening, but that each layer has holes in it where accidents can pass through. For example, a riving knife helps prevent kickback from the board pinching on the saw blade, but does nothing for amputations. Likewise, flesh sensing technology will prevent amputations, but does not help with the kickback issue. Other layers include things like the shop environment (Is there good lighting? Is it clean?), the mental state of the woodworker (Is he tired? Did he have a beer recently?) and the condition of the wood (Is it straight grained and well behaved, or is it twisted with a lot of reaction wood?). If things go well, each layer of cheese overlaps in such a way that all the holes are covered. An accident happens if somehow the holes line up to allow an accident to pass through.

This is why arguments like, “We don’t need SawStop or similar technology because woodworkers being a little more prudent will fill the same role” simply are not credible. Prudence doesn’t fill the same role as flesh sensing technology. Neither do riving knives, better designed guards, or other alternatives that have been proposed. Flesh sensing technology has one job to do: prevent severe injury if a part of your body touches the blade. Prudence, riving knives, or other alternatives can’t fill the same role. To say that you don’t need flesh sensing technology to be safe, now that the technology exists, is to say that we can remove a slice of swiss cheese and be as safe as we were before. Again, that argument doesn’t hold water.

To go back to the airline pilot and chemotherapy examples that I mentioned above, no one in either environment is suggesting that pilots and doctors can be more vigilant and that will take care of all safety issues. So I don’t see why the same shouldn’t hold for your table saw.

Please note: I am fully aware that there are other reasons people have against buying a SawStop. But to say that other methods of safe operation can substitute for what the SawStop does is not one of them.

[Brice_Arnold]

I'm not really looking for a debate. More just suggestions for people that already have a high end saw that does not need upgrading or from people that already had a high end saw and switched over.

There are obviously different levels and methods of safety from the completely careless worker to the worker who never uses his saw, (and therefore never needs to worry about an injury) to the worker who practices safe working methodology. The saw stop is a relatively new technology. What were people doing before that. Of all the table saw users out there was everyone guaranteed to loose a finger at some point in their career? What differentiates table saw users who go a lifetime without injury from those who get injured, but only after 20 years of using a table saw day-in and day-out. Is it pure chance or operator error?

It's always easy to say it could have been prevented, hindsight is 20/20. And perhaps my above statement came across as flippant but it was more of an innocent statment made out of ignorance.

There are also always higher levels of protection. Don't want to loose a finger? Don't use a table saw that's %100 guaranteed and it's a free technology. Then there is the typical OEM splitter and blade guard the get removed from day one because it is cumbersome. Then there are the after-maket splitters and guards that actually get used because they are not cumbersome. And then there is the Saw-Stop, the epitome of safety. The question is do we always need the best in class? Is it worth it?

This may or may not be a good analogy but lets consider bullet proof glass in an automobile. Sure it will protect me from bullets in the event of a hail of gunfire but what is the likely hood that I will need that protection?

Or maybe this one; airbags in cars. Lets say I own an older car that is perfectly operational but it doesn't have air bags. Now all of the sudden there is this new fangled technology in all these newer cars that could save my life. My car still works and i still owe $4,000 on it. Should I sell my car, barely breaking even, and get a new vehicle just for the new safety technology because it could save my life or do I just be a more careful and perhaps defensive driver.

I don't have a dog in this fight and not really looking for an argument that seems to stem from these discussions.

If this was my first saw purchase or I had a reason other than the safety feature to replace my saw then I would pick-up a Saw-Stop in a heartbeat without even thinking about it. I also think that with this proven technology it should be mandated for all table saws. But I think if our government is going to do that they should also subsidize the cost of the technology. I also think they should offer a trade in program kind of like the cash-for-clunkers a couple years ago.

These are just my thoughts and opinions, I'm not trying to legislate from the keyboard. But, I would like to hear from other Saw-Stop owners. I think Paul Marcel uses a Saw Stop. What did he have before that? Why did he switch over?

Brice

[wilburpan]

Sorry if I seemed argumentative. I wasn't trying to be, and to that end that's why I was separating the safety issue from all the other issues that come up whenever SawStop gets mentioned. My main point is that when the proposition is made that more education/prudence/being careful is brought up as a reason why the safety mechanism in a SawStop might be superfluous, that's a line of reasoning that doesn't hold water when you look at it from the point of view of how actual safety practices are evaluated. So this idea should not be a part of your decision making.

For the sake of this discussion, let's concentrate on operator awareness and the SawStop flesh detection mechanism. In the Swiss cheese model, there's one piece of cheese that represents how careful the woodworker is. The second piece of cheese represents the SawStop.

If you just operate your Delta table saw like you always do, you have one piece of cheese with some holes in it. Those holes aren't static: they move around and change size depending on how alert/tired you are. Increasing awareness can reduce the size of the holes, but they won't go away. And on the one day that you are more tired than usual, or the day that you lose your concentration, those holes can get bigger in size at that moment.

Now suppose you use a SawStop instead. You've now added a second layer of cheese, and judging by the real world experiences reported (lots of saves, no reports of the mechanism failing to work), the hole in that piece of cheese is really small. No matter what happens with the first slice of cheese, the chances that an accident will pass through both slices is smaller than it was with just one.

That's why I take issue with the idea that increasing operator awareness is equivalent to having a SawStop-type mechanism. It's not equivalent. Now, whether the added margin of safety is worth selling a table saw which you've already paid a lot of money for is a value proposition that at the end of the day only you can answer.

FWIW, this is how I would do the cost-benefit analysis. FIrst of all, I'd forget about the $4000 that you've already spent on your table saw. That money is gone regardless of what you decide. You might be able to sell the saw for $2000 or so. A 5 HP SawStop Industrial Cabinet Saw goes for $3400. So the real decision is whether the added safety margin of not losing a finger (or your hand, for that matter) in the case of an accident is worth $1500 or so.

Again, sorry if I seemed argumentative. I really just was trying to clarify the issues for you.

[Brice_Arnold]

No worries. Your second description of the swiss cheese defense (coming soon to a court room near you) sunk in a little better.

Not counting the handicap that you would incur from loosing a digit. A trip to the hospital would probably run you upwards of $50K (based on my own experience with a serious injury). So that should be a no brainer.

[Beechwood Chip]

What differentiates table saw users who go a lifetime without injury from those who get injured, but only after 20 years of using a table saw day-in and day-out. Is it pure chance or operator error?

Both! No one makes an error 100% of the time, and no one is perfect. When it happens, it's due to operator error. So, why did that operator error happen at that time rather than any other time? There will be a reason, say "because they were distracted." So, why were they distracted at that time and not another time? And, many woodworkers are distracted and don't get injured, so Why?

The way I see it, it's like asking, "Why when I toss a coin does it sometimes come up heads and sometimes tails? Is it how high I toss it, How I spin it? Or is it just pure chance?" You could analyze the coin's motion with stop motion photography and physics and say "why" it came up heads, but it's better understood statistically.

I'm not saying that everyone will have an injury. Many people do not. I think the odds are pretty good that I won't go to the emergency room due to wood working.

I'm not saying that being careful doesn't make a difference. It certainly reduces your odds of an injury. All the different ways that you can be safe and careful is another layer of Wilbur's "swiss cheese".

What did people do before the SawStop? They were careful, they used other safety features, and they sometimes got injured. If you want to really be safe, stay out of the shop. Oh, and don't drive, either.

Should you buy a SawStop? Like I said, if I already had a top of the line saw, I'd have trouble justifying replacing it, with my financial situation. I've heard that high end saws hold their value well - if you could sell it for nearly as much as the SawStop would cost, then that's something to consider.

If you want replies like, "I traded in my high end XXX for a high end YYY, and I found that fence was better but I didn't like the height adjustment," then stop asking philosophical questions about the likelyhood of an accident happening. That's just waving a red flag at a bull.

[Mark Henley]

Cost? Well ... I may be late to this party, but I have but one question. How much is your finger or thumb worth to you? Your child's fingers?

I bought the saw stop and never looked back .... Money is nothing compared to keeping your pits and pieces attached.