jhl.verona Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yet another new adventure, without having completed the others. So it goes. So here's the Record 073, complete with 'protective varnish', and an adjustable mouth that's stuck: Couldn't remove the varnish with solvents, so moved on to paint stripper: Then the 'rust salad' treatment. Ten litres of the finest cheapest white vinegar, and about 24 hours bubbling away: Previous attempts with WD40 to release the adjustable mouth had failed, but at this point, with a little persuasion, I finally managed to get it free. A good rub down with steel wool, clean up with washing up liquid, and then liberal amounts of water. Left out in the sun (37°C today) for 5 minutes to dry: I had read that the plane could rust very quickly after the vinegar bath, but 5 minutes?! So, on to a liberal coating of olio di vaselina, which I think is similar to mineral oil (it's petroleum jelly, but in liquid form), which looks better: Tomorrow I'll give the sole and sides a brush up with some fine grade sandpaper... John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onboard Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 John, looks like a keeper! Nice work! Have you thought of using Evapo-Rust™ Rust Remover? I see that it’s available in Italy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Really nice job on the restoration so far, John! I had read that the plane could rust very quickly after the vinegar bath, but 5 minutes?! Yup. Sometimes even faster. The only way that I've found to prevent this is to rinse your tool in hot water as soon as you get it out of the vinegar bath, and put some oil on it right away. And even then you might get some rust. Also: You might want to get that flaky thing off the bed of the plane. It could cause bedding problems with your plane blade once you get it together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhl.verona Posted July 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Hello Onboard, well I'm keeping it, anyway . John, looks like a keeper! Nice work! Have you thought of using Evapo-Rust™ Rust Remover? I see that it’s available in Italy. Yes, you can get it here. I didn't know about your link though - seems to be dead unfortunately. On Fleabay Italia: http://cgi.ebay.it/E...E-/270419721063 which is €49 after adding 20% VAT, or $69. And I'd need 10 litres, not five. That was a bit rich for me. I know you can keep it for further use, but I don't really want to become a plane restorer... Also electrolysis was out because I don't have a battery charger - can't remember the last time I needed to charge the car battery. So $9 worth of vinegar seemed the best choice . The rust salad this morning: So, no chance of recovering the vinegar then . Under that broth is Miss Rusty '72 - almost done: I started fettling the 073. I'm pleased to say that the olio di vaselina (I think that's mineral oil, it's just a liquid petroleum jelly) kept the rust away. This stuff rusts very fast, in the time it took to get the camera the frog on the #5 had gone brown in places. The mating surfaces of the adjustable mouth were very roughly milled. I didn't take too much off, because that would have to be matched when lapping the sole: The frog, or blade seating was also very rough. I think I've got it flat enough now - can't see the need for a mirror finish: The knurled depth adjustment nut had received some abuse from a pair of pliers. I tried to clean up a bit with a file, but the gouges are pretty deep: Next will be the lapping process. First the blade, which also has some pretty deep milling marks. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhl.verona Posted July 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Hey Wilbur, Really nice job on the restoration so far, John! Well if I can do it, then anyone can . Yup. Sometimes even faster. The only way that I've found to prevent this is to rinse your tool in hot water as soon as you get it out of the vinegar bath, and put some oil on it right away. And even then you might get some rust. Found that out from the frog today. 90 seconds to get the camera, rust! I just put it back into the broth for now. Definitely got to be fast here. The oil cleared up the very light rust stains though on the 073. Also you might want to get that flaky thing off the bed of the plane. It could cause bedding problems with your plane blade once you get it together. Funny that. I only noticed when I was posting the photographs. Looks like paint, anyway I used a fine file to flatten the bed, so it's gone now. Well spotted. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobbe Arnesson Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Rust is oxidation of the iron, a chemical reaction that needs oxygen. So if you keep the iron away from oxygen you'll be fine. There's oxygen in water and there's water in the vinegar. So don't let 'em be exposed to either vinegar, water or air for too long. Air is of course worst and as you've discovered very effective after the iron has been exposed to acid. Perhaps you can have three baths and quickly move the parts from vinegar to water to oil? You don't have to rush the bathing, just the moving. Citrus acid is also an effective way of dissolving rust. Just keep in mind that acids also eat iron so don't let 'em soak for too long (vinegar is basically flavorings from wine, water and acetic acid). In fact, if the rust ain't that bad to begin with you're probably better off to just sand the surfaces with a fine grit. Here in Sweden Citrus acid can be bought among the spices in almost all grocery stores, there's also acetic acid solved in water to be found somewhere close to the spices. These are probably considerably cheaper than even the cheapest white vinegar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nateswoodworks Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Looks great, make sure to let us know how you like itafter some use. Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhl.verona Posted July 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Rust is oxidation of the iron, a chemical reaction that needs oxygen. So if you keep the iron away from oxygen you'll be fine. That easy? My next door neighbour is an astronaut, so .... There's oxygen in water and there's water in the vinegar. So don't let 'em be exposed to either vinegar, water or air for too long. Air is of course worst and as you've discovered very effective after the iron has been exposed to acid. Perhaps you can have three baths and quickly move the parts from vinegar to water to oil? You don't have to rush the bathing, just the moving. Interesting idea. I might add a water bath. I already have a very oily rag handy. Citrus acid is also an effective way of dissolving rust. Just keep in mind that acids also eat iron so don't let 'em soak for too long (vinegar is basically flavorings from wine, water and acetic acid). In fact, if the rust ain't that bad to begin with you're probably better off to just sand the surfaces with a fine grit. The 073 only got about 20 hours. There was some rusting in the handgrips, which are below the side surface. Difficult to get at any other way. Miss Rusty on the other hand seems to have spent some time at the bottom of a lake - so she's been in the soup 72 hours and counting... I'm no chemist, but if my schooling is correct, Acetic acid is a weak acid - it doesn't release all of its hydrogen. And at 5%, it's not going to make a real impact into pure iron for a long time. Days or weeks I believe. Anyway, I'll be careful - and I don't want to get into a chemistry war either. Seen far too many of those on the 'net when talking about rust removal. But if Miss Rusty has disappeared tomorrow morning, at least I'll know why . Here in Sweden Citrus acid can be bought among the spices in almost all grocery stores, there's also acetic acid solved in water to be found somewhere close to the spices. These are probably considerably cheaper than even the cheapest white vinegar. I've seen citric acid broths for rust removal before, but this is Italy Tobbe. Wine and vinegar. The stuff grows outside my window (well nearly, about 1 km away). Cheaper than petrol. If only the car would run on it - but then again, who'd get breathalysed? Looks great, make sure to let us know how you like itafter some use. Nate You betcha, Nate. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobbe Arnesson Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Yeah, both acetic and citrus acid are weak acids and you should be fine if you check on them from time to time. Just wanted to make sure you wont leave 'em soaking and go for a holiday trip or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhl.verona Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Yeah, both acetic and citrus acid are weak acids and you should be fine if you check on them from time to time. Just wanted to make sure you wont leave 'em soaking and go for a holiday trip or something. Woodworkers go on holiday? I'd have taken the vinegar soup with me. Oh I do like a story with a happy ending.... I'd thought about lapping the 073. I'm not very good at lapping. I discovered that soaking four oh wire wool in oil gets rid of all the rust stains, so I decided to move on, and sharpen the blade. "if it aint' broke, don't fix it". Very different experience from other blades. This one sharpens immediately - not sure if that's a good thing or not. I think the steel must be a lot softer than other Stanley/Records, and certainly less than the Hock, which takes me quite a while to sharpen. The blade seems to have had little use, so perhaps it's just the 'usual' less hardened tip? Anyway, time will tell, and I'll get to see how long the edge lasts. Here's the blade after the wire wool treatment, but before sharpening: And here's the lovely lady with sharp blade installed and mouth tightened up to about 0.5mm (say 1/32"): This is what she can do to fir cross grain: I've liberally applied wax to the body, and buffed off. No picture, but she looks lovely, and I'm getting jealous! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobbe Arnesson Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Looking good! That blade is perhaps not as wide as the blades your used to sharpening? Less metal = faster sharpening. But it can of course also be a softer steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhl.verona Posted July 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Looking good! That blade is perhaps not as wide as the blades your used to sharpening? Less metal = faster sharpening. But it can of course also be a softer steel. You're right, of course. The blade is 1 1/4" compared to a bench plane 2". It's probably half and half. I'll need to put it to good use to see how long it keeps an edge. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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