Is Sketchup Over rated? Or Am I Missing Someting

[Boatworks Today]

So, I've spent the last 2 days learning the basics of sketchup. Granted I didn't know anything about it before I downloaded the program short of a lot of people talk about it, so keep in mind my proficiency is very low to put it nicely. But, after roughly a total of 10 hours of fumbling around, I somewhat got a design for a desk that I've had in my head laid out on the computer (and it's still not all there; the desk, not my mind ).

But to be honest, I could have drawn this out on paper in probably an hour or so... So I guess my question to the people that know a lot more about this software than I; what is the real advantage? If a person is able to visualize an idea, throw it onto paper in a short period of time, where does sketchup come in?

To me it makes sense for doing interior layouts in a home, overall building site layout, etc; (big scale stuff).. Am I missing something, or just old school and behind the times ???

Thanks!

[thewoodwhisperer]

Personally I only use SketchUp for joinery detail and basic proportions. The program takes time to learn if you really want to sketch something from top to bottom. Its just not worth it for me to put in the extra time to learn all of that just to add details that are already in my head. Putting them into the SketchUp model would only serve to take more time and make the model appear more complete.

I do have to say that for folks who do become proficient in it, they can whip up perfect scale models of projects in absolutely no time. For others, SketchUp is all part of the fun of their hobby.

Also keep in mind that for pros, a SketchUp drawing (or any 3D rendering for that matter), can give you an incredibly powerful tool to engage your customer and provide clarity on the project. Looks pretty fancy too when you walk in with a laptop and give them a 3D tour of the finished product.

So it isn't for everyone, that's for sure. But is it overrated? I don't think so. It gives back exactly what you put into it. And it has a fairly user-friendly interface which is what makes it pretty popular amongst woodworkers.

[rodger.]

I feel your frustration Boat. I too have spent many hours trying to get a good handle on Sketchup. I found it took far too much time, and could easily draw multiple views on paper in far less time.

I feel Marc's advice is sound. Using it for rough work and joinery seems to make sense. Maybe I'll give it another try.

[areynoldsre]

I love Sketchup but then I can't draw a straight line with a ruler. Also I've done a lot of time with CAD software on the job (auto-cad and others) so learning Sketchup was easy for me and I can knock out a simple design very fast. I like to use it when I am figuring out the joinery and engineering details of a piece. For me helps me figure out things that I'd get hung up on in the shop.

But the biggest advantage is to see the project in 3D and to be able to better visualize what the finished piece will look like. Then I can show it to my wife (my customer) and making changes is simple (there are always changes).

But I don't always use Skecthup. My conceptual drawings and even simple projects I draw by hand long before I make a Sketchup model. The other thing I like about the tool is the fact that it builds a 3D model. I find that model helps me with design elements and even figuring out how to build the piece. Also I can build a more complex model - say a room in my house - to place the piece I am designing in to see how it would fit the room and with other pieces.

and remember the price - your time to figure it out.

But in the end it really gets down to how you work and how you design. Computers, software and hand planes are all just part of how I design and build. As with any tool, if you spend the time to get proficient at it, it becomes easier to use and the more you can do with it.

And ten hours is just scratching the surface of the tool. I've spent a lot more time than that learning it but then I really like CAD tools.

[StrangeRANGER]

I like to use sketchup to design when I am not in the shop. You can download all sorts of models to get ideas and see what other woodworkers are doing. I also use it to work out layout and joinery math problems.

[rmac]

SketchUp is not overrated. For all but the simplest projects, it has a bunch of advantages over hand-drawn plans:

0. Once you get used to it, it will be faster than drawing by hand. Believe it or not.

1. It's a lot easier to change a CAD file than a hand-drawn plan.

2. Once you have a SketchUp model built, you can very easily generate all kinds of different views of your project.

3. Once you have a SketchUp model built, you can very easily generate individual, accurately-dimensioned views of the component parts.

4. If the parts of your project fit together in SketchUp, they will fit together when you build them. No more stupid arithmetic errors!

5. You can send a SketchUp model to your pals, who can then zoom and pan and rotate it any way they want and tell you what they think.

6. Etc, etc., etc.

I tried to learn SketchUp some time ago by "fumbling around", as you put it. That works for some programs, but with SketchUp I didn't get very far using that approach. There were two reasons, I think. First, I had some previous experience with a 2D CAD program, and that experience didn't translate very well to the way SketchUp works. I would have been better off not knowing anything about CAD beforehand. The other thing you don't learn by fumbling around is that SketchUp has a whole bunch of keyboard shortcuts that eliminate a whole bunch of tedious farting around with the mouse. You will like SketchUp a lot better if you learn these shortcuts.

I finally got past the learning curve (last month, actually) by going through a couple of eBooks on the subject, and forcing myself to actually do all the examples in them (well, mostly all of them). Then I took the time to make SketchUp models of a couple of projects that I had already designed and built. At this point I don't feel like I'm an expert, but I have come to like the program and will certainly try to use it for the next projects that I design. I didn't keep careful track of the time, but I probably spent 3-4 days getting to the point I am now.

For the record, I got two eBooks. One was Bob Lang's self-published "Woodworker's Guide to SketchUp", which you can order here as a DVD for about $40. The other was Tim Killen's "SketchUp Guide for Woodworkers", which you can order here as an electronic download for about $13. It's published by the Taunton Press.

Lang's book is interesting in that it has some embedded videos that help to illustrate some of the things that are described in the text. I didn't find the videos all that useful, though. One problem was a tendancy on my part to get lazy and say, "Oh, I saw that in the video, so I don't need to try it myself." That was a bad thing, but not really the book's fault. But that aside, I thought that most of the videos were way too short to really explain what was going on. I found myself saying, "Is that it?" at the end of almost all of them. If video's your thing, then you'd be better off looking at all the SkethUp tutorials that Google has put up on YouTube. They're pretty good.

The other problem I had with Lang's book is that it needs the attention of an independent copy editor. It's repetitious and wordy in some places, and there are some silly typos and grammatical errors here and there that really should have been caught before it was published. Maybe I'm too picky, but for $40, I expected something a little cleaner. Having said all that, Lang does have a friendly, conversational writing style that's easy to read and follow.

In some ways, it's hard to make a fair comparison between the two books because I read Killen's second. By that time (thanks to Lang), I was already getting the hang of SketchUp, and I was finding it a lot easier to follow and understand. I will say, though, that Killen's book was more professionally put together, as you'd expect from the reputation of its publisher. I was also pleased to find that I was still picking up new tips and tricks from Killen, even after having gone through the other book.

I think it's also fair to say that Killen does a better job of showing what SketchUp can do. While Lang's book tends to stick with relatively simple, rectangular projects, the later chapters in Killen's book talk about Windsor chairs and Maloof rockers and gooseneck moldings and all kinds of crazy curvy stuff that you might not think SketchUp could handle.

In the end, I'd say that Killen's book is the better value at $13. For the first time ever, "you get what you pay for" doesn't seem to apply.

-- Russ

[Pbmaster11]

Self taught... give yourself a week with it... youtube videos etc etc. you will love it

[JMadson Custom Wood]

But to be honest, I could have drawn this out on paper in probably an hour or so... So I guess my question to the people that know a lot more about this software than I; what is the real advantage? If a person is able to visualize an idea, throw it onto paper in a short period of time, where does sketchup come in?

I'm jealous, I don't have the ability to draw what I see in my head in any reasonable time frame. I know everything has a learning curve but I've been trying to draw for 30 years, it ain't gettin' any better.

I sell custom cabinets and I have to be able to show the customer that I understand their wishes. In Sketchup, I can make a rendering that looks real to them. The dimensions are spot on and the colors can look good enough. I can even add the rest of the furnishings to match the existing room.

I couldn't work without Sketchup, or at least something like it. But you also can't beat the price. And there's a ton of free material, ie. tutorials and add-ons, out there to help you out.

For the average woodworker, it's a great tool to see how something you're building will fit together. You can draw it in perfect scale and get the details that you're worried about out of your head and resolved.

[Boatworks Today]

Thanks to all that have commented so far; @rmac, I'll have to check up on the books you suggested. I have to say though (granted I haven't studied or read up on everything that sketchup has to offer) that in my short illiterate time of using it, it still seems a little tedious. From what I've seen so far it's a good program for what it is; but still very time consuming to get all the details.. I am sure experience takes care of alot of my issues Believe me, not turned off on it; just a bit of a skeptic at heart.

Still would like to hear more comments. I am sure that I'll put more time into it, but just wondering if it's something that should be looked at as more of a priority; or hobby...

Thanks again!

[areynoldsre]

Thanks to all that have commented so far; @rmac, I'll have to check up on the books you suggested. I have to say though (granted I haven't studied or read up on everything that sketchup has to offer) that in my short illiterate time of using it, it still seems a little tedious. From what I've seen so far it's a good program for what it is; but still very time consuming to get all the details.. I am sure experience takes care of alot of my issues Believe me, not turned off on it; just a bit of a skeptic at heart.

Still would like to hear more comments. I am sure that I'll put more time into it, but just wondering if it's something that should be looked at as more of a priority; or hobby...

Thanks again!

If you have a business that does design work, make it a priority else it's a cool hobby that you'll like as you get more in to it. Once you know what it can do you'll have fun playing with it.

[Bombarde16]

Give it time and keep at it. Sketchup's learning curve is rocket fast compared to pretty much any other CAD program; but it's still an investment to get to the point of things being instinctive. i.e. you can reference a line precisely where you want it without having to think. Practice a few things for now: a.) Working with guide points and guide lines and b.) getting into the habit of grouping objects into components. SU's so-called "sticky" geometry is one of the things that frustrates people (both beginners and folks coming from other CAD suites) and keeping components separate is key. Spend some time working in just 2D while you're at it. ("Camera" menu, select "Parallel projection" and then "Standard views: Top") SU works great for 2D renderings and, if that's all you ever need from it, there's nothing wrong with that.

JMadson's comments on client communication are dead on. A picture is indeed worth a thousand words and perhaps even thousands of bucks if it gets you the job.

As for whether SU will supplant your paper and pencil, I say no. I look at Sketchup the same way I approach music notation software in my real job. Notation suites such as Finale or Sibelius are both a blessing and a curse. A blessing in that, once you have an idea, they take over a lot of the drudgery of writing it out and preparing it for communication to other musicians. A curse in that as long as you're sitting in front of a computer, you're never going to have any ideas worth a damn.

No, the real process of creation has to happen old school, in a quiet place with a pencil, blank sheets of staff paper and healthy serving of the beverage of your choice. Once you have a vision and play with it in your mind for a while, then you move into the computer and things move quickly as that vision becomes reality.

Back to Sketchup, then, keep your drafting table for dreaming up wild and beautiful concepts. Your hand can trace a curve as fast as your mind can imagine it, whereas the details of putting that same curve into a computer will slow you down to the point that you lose the inspiration. Again, the analogy with music composition holds: Rhythmic freedom comes naturally with pencil and staff paper but is the devil incarnate to notate with a computer. My composition teacher always grumbled that people who try to compose directly into the computer end up writing everything in C major and strict 4/4 time...the machine's default setting when you start a new score.

Once the inspiration is there, then approach the computer with your ideas and let it take the grunt work of producing exact dimensions, cut lists, client renderings and the like.

[CessnaPilotBarry]

I avoided it and stuck to paper for a long time. I should have learned it sooner!

After several half-assed failed attempts to learn it, I hunkered down with Bob Lang's pair of tutorial DVD's. Now, I can whip out stuff in no time.

I normally don't go to the extent of drawing every little detail. The power of Sketchup in my world is the ability to show various options and design to a non-visual client, or even my wife, quickly and easily. On paper, if I wanted to show 4-5 different drawer layouts, I had to draw five versions. With Sketchup, I can copy and paste the basics, and detail each example very quickly.

[kaschimer]

And then there is http://sketchupforwoodworkers.com/ which is a good set of video tutorials that describe the basics. I have *only* used this resource, and I would say I am fairly adept at Sketchup. Like anything else, I need more practice, but I went from scratching my head to actually designing a bow rack that I went on to produce and give as a gift recently.

Oh, and did I mention that this resource is free?

[croessler]

I taught myself using many of the online resources already mentioned; I can now create complete drawings pretty quickly. It helps reduce the amount of time I spend trying bring the concept to fruition.

[Gary]

+1 on http://sketchupforwoodworkers.com/

I went through the tutorials in a few evenings and was able to get a very good grasp of the basics.

[pagel]

Thank you, kaschimer and SlingBlade! That's a very helpful website.

[Boatworks Today]

went through the first 3 tutorials this morning; agreeed that it would have shaved quite a bit of time off my learning curve. Will have to watch the rest and check out a few books. Being stubborn in my methodology not going to retire my pencil / paper anytime soon, but I can see that as a person gets more proficient with the software it could actually be a little fun

Thanks everyone for all the help!

[Nick2cd]

And then there is http://sketchupforwoodworkers.com/ which is a good set of video tutorials that describe the basics. I have *only* used this resource, and I would say I am fairly adept at Sketchup. Like anything else, I need more practice, but I went from scratching my head to actually designing a bow rack that I went on to produce and give as a gift recently.

Oh, and did I mention that this resource is free?

^^^^^this i learned sketchup via these vids. im by no means an expert, but i know enough to get by. just like anything else, you'll become more proficient with it the more you use it. i find the best part of it is being able to make a quick change to see how something looks. example, in a matter of seconds you can change a curve radius from 1" to 1.5" to 2" and see which one looks best. plus, i like to think of it like golf. they say you play better golf when you walk instead of taking a golf cart because as you're walking, you have more time to think about your next shot. designing a sketchup model forces you to analyze your project from every angle. if something doesn't line up, you'll know it before carbide ever touches wood.

[dwacker]

I tried to save a buck and gave up. I use a layout and design service. I can have a kitchen layed out for under $75 with shop drawing.

Don

[rodger.]

Okay, you guys convinced me to try sketch up again. I went through the tutorials with the house and interior rooms, so I'm getting better. I'm gonna check out the sketchup for wood workers tonight.

[bois]

I've gone back and forth on SketchUp quite a few times, but I think Rob Horton had some of the best points here. Before you invest the time in learning it, you really need to stop and think about what you are using SketchUp for. As far as the creative process, I think it's an absolute killer. I can only get curves, shapes, and conceptual designs right by sketching on paper over and over until I get things just right. I will literally draw and redraw a curve dozens of times with a french curve until I get exactly what I'm looking for. SketchUp is terrible for trying to fair curves and work out proportions (a set of dividers just works so nicely for that).

For actual layout of a project on your stock, I also think SketchUp becomes a bit of a crutch. It's very good at generating a high-level cut list, but if you are actually measuring out components and joinery from your model, you're likely going to end up with errors. Referential layout and transferring of joinery from component to component will always give you the best results. You don't care if the front and back aprons are 48" long or 48 1/8" long, but you sure care if they are the same length. So for me, I use SketchUp purely as a mid-point between a paper sketch and a scale (or full-scale) model. When I did more commission work, it was indeed a great tool to include a model with a proposal to both help close the deal, and also set expectations.

But in the end, to me SketchUp is one tool of many in the design process, and frankly it's one of the least valuable ones. I've made too many designs that looked great when I rotated them around in SketchUp, but once built in full scale, a proportion didn't quite work, or a straight line begged for a curve or vice-versa. So treat it as you would any tool in the shop - a part of the process, but don't rely on it to handle the full design process. You will likely end up working your design to fit within your SketchUp skills rather than letting your concept dictate whether SketchUp will aid in the design process or not.

[acrotech]

One thing to do for sure is do not try to learn this program with a laptop unless you have a mouse attached to the laptop. Trying to move around an object and zoom in or out with a built in laptop mouse will drive you nuts! I have an odd shaped bar area in a banquet hall and could not visualize a good layout so sketchup was the answer.

I about gave up with the laptop, then I attached a real mouse and it made it sooo much easier. In a case like this where you want to actually SEE what something is going to look like in an odd shaped room or space, sketchup is fantastic. Now the more I learn about it, the faster projects can be drawn. What took me several days to layout in the beginning with sketchup can be done in less than a hour and I have printable drawings with exact measurements.......LOVE IT.

[mikem]

The last several projects I have completed, i have done the basic drawings on sketchup. Because I am able to go through the entire project in digital form, it has helped me better visualize the entire project, especially assembly. The result is projects that have come together far better then the ones I have just had in my head. My drawing skills on paper are lacking, so sketch-up is definitely not overrated for me.

[croessler]

One thing to do for sure is do not try to learn this program with a laptop unless you have a mouse attached to the laptop. .

I teach a beginning Sketchup class for woodworkers at the local Woodcraft. I require that they bring a 3-button mouse with their laptop. Otherwise it will be a frustrating experience at best.....

[JMadson Custom Wood]

I teach a beginning Sketchup class for woodworkers at the local Woodcraft. I require that they bring a 3-button mouse with their laptop. Otherwise it will be a frustrating experience at best.....

How did you get that gig? I would love it. What's your background?