Jwest Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Hello all, I have recently been trying to become a more serious hobbyist. In the past I would try to build things for around the house, but they never turned out quite right. I always thought I needed a new tool to make better pieces, but I have come to find out that I wasn't making best use of my current tools. So, I've been in the process of going through all my tools and tuning them up to maximize success...starting with my table saw after watching Marc's video on table saw tune up. Here is where I'm at: I had the old factory supplied blade, factory supplied ZCI, no splitter, and a fence that wasn't quite parallel. I have done the following: 1) Replaced blade with a thin kerf Infinity Super General. 2) Bought an aftermarket ZCI 3) Installed a micro jig splitter...I liked this option and it seemed to have pretty good reviews 4) I borrowed a dial indicator to adjust my blade so now it is approximately within a thousandth parallel to the miter slot 5) My fence is now parallel to the miter slot...I didn't use the dial indicator for that just an adjustable square 6) Made sure my blade was 90 degrees at the zero stop, which it wasn't before. My problem is this, after all those changes when I rip wood now I get burning on the wood. I’ve never had that issue before. The cuts look great apart from that. I’ve various feed rates, rips with and without the splitter, I’ve rechecked to see if the blade is perpendicular, as well as square to the miter slot. I’m really at a loss as far as what to check next or what even causes burning. It seems like the burning is worse on the fence side. Any ideas or advice on how to proceed would be much appreciated. Sorry for the long post, but I thought it was important to give some back ground. Thanks again. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Need to know where the burning is. When you rip a piece using the fence is the burning in the middle or dose it start closer to the end when your almost done with the cut? Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBear Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Also, which part is burned, IE the piece against the fence, or the offcut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwest Posted December 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 The burning is on the piece against the fence, the offcut seems to be OK. So, the burning will show up along the whole length of the fence piece, but it seems to be heavier as I'm ripping the middle section of the piece. What would be the difference if the burning was in the middle verus the end? I was going to take a picture of one piece, but forgot to. I'm not at home right now, so I can't get a picture for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Are you sure your fence is truly straight? If it bows in or bows out, you can have different issues as you push a board through. If it's straight - and since you said the burning happens on the piece against the fence - I'd say maybe the fence is toed slightly in, towards the blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteJr Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 The distance between the fence and the saw blade body must be consistent or constant throughout the rip cut. Be sure you are keeping the wood tight against the fence during the cut. I found that the yellow wheel board buddies do a great job. They are not too expansive and available at Rockler. http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11262 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwest Posted December 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Ok, I'll double check the fence with a dial indicator this time to see what it says. I do feel like I'm keeping the wood tight to the fence, but I guess it's possible when I tuned up my saw I made an error in adjustment on the fence. The fence on my saw doesn't seem very easy to adjust. It's a ridgid ts3650, and the manual isn't very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmason Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 A couple of things come to mind. First the obvious, is the blade a rip blade? From your description it sounds like the rip fence is not quite parallel to the bade. My rip fence tends to shift toward the blade at the rear of the fence as I tighten it. It is an old Craftsman and is a common problem with that saw. I have been telling myself since I have owned the saw that someday I'll buy a Beismeyer. The simple fix is once the fence is is position but before you tighten it place your left thumb firmly on the table right next to the rear of the fence and then tighten the fence. That way the fence can't shift toward the blade. Make sure the saw is turned off for this operation. Another possibility is that your stock is not flat. and it pushes toward the blade as you feed it. Check the side of the board that goes against the fence w/ a straightedge. If is bowed you can either run it through a joiner or hand plane it flat. before you rip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Reuten Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 I would agree with the other diagnoses that the fence is toed in toward the blade, probably at the back. All the other advice is also sound ie: blade choice, straightness of stock. I should add, is your stock staying straight or is it deforming as you cut? I'm guessing that a jointer in not in your arsenal but a jointing sled for the tablesaw could be. Simply a plank with a cleat running lengthwise that fits the t-slot on the saw and another cleat across the fore end to push the stock against. Let the plank overhang the blade slot so that it cuts the sled edge off on the first cut. I just use finishing nails to tack my stock into position but you could play around with toggle clamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nateswoodworks Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 I would step back, take a deep breath. Next put a straight edge (3' or longer) against your fence and make sure it's straight. If your fence is bowed slightly but was out of alighnment you may not have noticed it before. If that's not the case recheck all your settings starting with the blade parallel to the slots, then the slots parallel to the fence. Sometimes things shift a tad as we tighten up or we just make those little human errors. Let us know what you figure out. Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwest Posted December 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 The deep breath is something that is definitely needed...here is where I'm at. I checked the fence this morning and yes it was slightly shifted in at the back. I readjusted it the best I could, but noticed that it does shift a little while I'm sliding it back and forth. I can't seem to get it to slide or move without shifting a little. I set the fence and double checked it before running stock to make sure it was parallel to the miter slot. I still got burning. I didn't get it on the plywood this time, but was still getting on the oak board I was using, and heavier at the out feed side. It didn't make sense to me. I checked the blade again and it looks like the blade has moved or something because it wasn't within a thousandth like I thought it was previously. I didn't have time to realign the blade, but plan on doing that next. I'm still not sure how it went from a thousandth to roughly ten thousandths out of parallel to the slot. Could that be my issue if the fence is parallel? By the way I have the Infinity Super General general purpose blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 7, 2011 Report Share Posted December 7, 2011 You have to make sure the miter slot is spot on if your going to use it as a reference for the fence. If it off even the slightest its going to be amplified at the outfeed end of the fence. Personally I dont fiddle with it, I set the fence parallel to the blade toed out .001-.003 toed out at the outfeed right at the end of the fence. I dont mess with the dial indicators and fancy toys people use nowdays. Just a jointed board and a piece of paper is all that is needed. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Tools Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Jack, Try and make a nice clean Cross Cut with the S.G. That will eliminate the variable of the fence. If the blade performs flawlessly in this scenario then we know it is a setup issue with your rip fence. If it burns while making a cross cut it could be the blade or your wood. Also, make sure your stock is flat and square. The S.G. does not like cupped or dished wood. The grind geometry necessary to produce the glass-smooth finish does not take kindly to wood that could pinch behind the blade. If you are still having problems, call me at the office. 813-881-9090 x201 Thanks, David V. Infinity Tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COMO Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Good luck. I banged my knuckles for what seemed like a couple hours last night on my Ridgid 3612. I was in the same boat as you with tools needing some tuning. I just started wood working and am making a couple of cutting boards for mother and mother in law for Christmas. I was having some issues on the first cuts so after the first glue up I decided it was time for a tune up on the saw. After a couple bloody knuckles and lots of 4 letter words (good thing I don't have kids yet) I finally got it adjusted and it made a huge difference. I will second the statement about the owners manual. I pulled my offline because I bought the saw used. It was slightly frustrating. My biggest problem was each time I tightened the bolts it seemed to shift slightly out of line and would be out of line. Finally after many repeats it is cutting great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwest Posted December 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Well, another update. I spent a lot of time re-squaring the blade, and COMO you are right about tightening the bolts and shifting. After a few tries this morning of trying to tighten the bolts without the shifting the best I got was .002. I guess that's pretty good?? The burning does look better, and I'm including a photo this time to show the difference. The piece on the right was pre-adjustment and the left one is obviously after. It does look better, but not great. I tried running a maple piece through just to see if it was the wood, and again I got burning on the front infeed portion, but it was very small. Looking closely at the wood though you could tell something still isn't right. David V thanks for the information. I will definitely try that tonight and give you a call if something isn't right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 That is actually alot of buning on both pieces. Are you referencing off your miter slot or the blade? Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwest Posted December 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Miter slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 8, 2011 Report Share Posted December 8, 2011 Miter slot. Did you check your miter slot to make sure its dead on parallel to the blade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwest Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Sorry, did you mean referencing my fence to the blade versus miter slot? My blade is about .002" off square to the miter slot, so pretty close I thought. I set my fence to the same miter slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteJr Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Here some additional resources that may help http://www.newwoodworker.com/algntruns.html http://www.newwoodworker.com/dilindjiguse.html http://www.in-lineindustries.com/saw_pals.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preeng2 Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 How is the runout on your arbor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwest Posted December 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Not sure what you mean by that preeng2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 9, 2011 Report Share Posted December 9, 2011 Sorry, did you mean referencing my fence to the blade versus miter slot? My blade is about .002" off square to the miter slot, so pretty close I thought. I set my fence to the same miter slot. If your miter slot is off by .002 from one side of the blade to the other then its off by alot more than you think. By the time it gets from one end of the table to the other its going to be quite abit off. If your going to use the miter slot as a reference point for the fence it has to be perfect or the fence will be off by that same amount + what ever amount you set it off. Stop using the miter slot. Take a long straight edge or jointed board. Put flat on the table snug to the blade but not tweeking the blade. Move your fence over close to the straight edge not quit touching. Now just measure the gap at each end of the fence the outfeed end should be just a hair wider than the infeed. This will set your fence only. To set your miter slot do the same thing. Push the straight edge against the blade. Square your miter gauge with a square. Clamp a board to the miter gauge not qite touching the the straight edge. Measure the gap at both ends and adjust as needed. When your all done cross cut a board and flip on side and butt back together. If its straight using the straight edge then your done. Keep it simple. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10fingerswisc Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 occasionally i had the same problem.Found out I was feeding the board too slow for the thickness of wood and not the correct height of the blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnell Hagen Posted December 10, 2011 Report Share Posted December 10, 2011 Ya, both maple and cherry are prone to burning is you go too slow. I'd try your old blade as well, and see if it still happens then. Thin kerfs are prone to flutter and that specific blade may have a lot of runout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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