Brian VanVreede Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Imagine having some of the finest wood working hand/power tools at your fingertips for every project you work on..... Now imagine that its not your shop and their not your tools but your still using them.... I recently stumble across a site called Philadelphiawoodworks.com. If you go to the site you will see that what they are offering is the equivalent of a gym membership. Although they haven't worked out their final pricing they say there will be several different membership options and that they are open 7 days a week, day and night. I think this is an amazing idea that fits perfectly into a city living environment. Now I personally live in the burbs and have my own shop so it wouldn't exactly be the most convent. What are your thoughts? Will they survive this economy or will we see their tools on eBay 6 months from now?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds2 Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 I have had a few situations come up where I would have went to a place like that in a heartbeat. But I had to find other solutions, which is a big part of woodworking. I wouldn't pay a monthly fee though. Do what you can, where you are, with what you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatworks Today Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 It seems like a neat concept, but have to think that their insurance costs are going to be a nightmare! If their membership costs are able to cover everything could be a cool idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Im questioning how long they will last. All that griz equipment is not csa or ul certified. Here we would never be allowed to open the doors with that equipment unless it was a one person sole proprietor business in a residence. The laws are nation wide and I have no clue how strict Philly is with L&I inspections. Pretty sure they will have to be inspected prior to opening as part of licensing and occupancy. I really think they are going to have some serious legal issues but it is a neat concept. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runningwood Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 My local Woodcraft already has this model in place. They have a store in front and a large shop in the back. You can join by the year or month and it is successful (in terms of users, not sure how profitable it is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 DWacker, many professional shops, with multiple employees use grizzly tools. The page listing for the band saw pictured even shows CSA and UL certifications http://www.grizzly.com/products/The-Ultimate-14-Bandsaw/G0555 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Isn't it Gibson that has a shop full of Grizzly tools? If it's good enough for Gibson, it's good enough for a woodworking gym membership. But yeah, insurance has got to be brutal, regardless of the brand of tools they have. Good idea though, for an urban setting at least. I don't think I'd be able to fork over my cash to rent someone else's shop as long as I had space for one of my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Very few grizzly tools are CSA or UL certified. Most are field certifiable but some they wont even touch. Field certification is expensive I just paid $300 to have the PM2000 field certified to pass my L&I inspection for a part time helper. WA is very strict you wont find any shops around here with grizzly. I think it all depends on how well they enforce. I would think anyplace that is open to the public is going to be inspected hard a regularly. Requirements For Electrical Equipment RCW 19.28.010(1) requires all electrical equipment to be manufactured to an applicable electrical safety standard. WAC 296-46B-010(8) clarifies that electrical equipment must be: Manufactured to applicable electrical safety standards recognized by the department (Note: A variance request must be submitted for this approval. Manufacturer documentation of standards for each component will be required before approval will be granted.); or Approved by listing or field evaluation by an L&I approved electrical testing laboratory. Contact information for all approved electrical testing laboratories is available on our website at: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 i have seen places that instead of a membership it is more like a group ownership you buy a one percent ownership of the place. might be able to get around the insurance laws that way. there is a place near by that is similar http://cuwoodshop.com/dreamshop.html. i have recently had someone use our school shop to sand down a table because she has no room to do it at home i think there would be alot of people who would want to use the space even just to do some work. maybe have options a membership or they could just do a pay by the hour. come in work for a couple hours and finish project and leave might never see again but you might get more people that way, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 i have seen places that instead of a membership it is more like a group ownership you buy a one percent ownership of the place. might be able to get around the insurance laws that way. Ownership gets them out of ADA responsibilities which is a whole other issue and can of worms. When you open to the public you have to accommodate the disabled. Ramps, ADA restrooms accessibility to the product and or service and the list goes on and on. I wouldnt even want to think about how ugly and ADA claim could become. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted December 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 Membership pricing was just emailed to me. Seems expensive considering I already own some of my own tools.... http://www.philadelphiawoodworks.com/membership/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubsFan Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 That does seem a tad on the expensive side. In truth, I'm not sure which way I'd go with that. For some people it would be a nice way to get away from home and do stuff without constant interruptions. But, it would make it impossible to go out for 15 min. or 1/2 hour to do something quick. I just don't think I'd have as much fun doing that as I do in my garage. I actually might use the basic membership option if it was a little cheaper (or per hour). It would be great to have a way to access tools that either I can't fit in my shop or wouldn't use enough to justify buying (drum sander, lathe, mortiser, etc..). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 $1500 per year? I don't know, if you lived in the city and had absolutely nowhere to set up your own shop...sounds reasonable enough, especially if you want to work with power tools. The cost of one year of membership would hardly get you a serious tablesaw...and that's just one tool. Still, it would kill me to pay for someone else's tools, and I'd make dang sure to spend every available minute there that I could. I also think it'd be a good thing for newcomers to see if they really liked woodworking before they made the investment of buying their own tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 I'd also be worried about the "gym membership" syndrome; it's great at first but they keep selling more and more memberships, and eventually it's so crowded that it's not worth going. I might get the safety certification (it might not be a bad idea to have someone give me a sanity check), and then I'd be able to pay for a day if I had a project that needed a specific tool, more space than I have at home, etc. Also, it might be nice for things like, "my jointer keeps making trapazoids - is it my technique or the jointer setup?" $39 and some scrapwood and I can see what happens when I use their jointer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteJr Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 I'd consider joining on a low cost annual membership basis, then paying for time on the machines. If it's $1500 it is way too much for my budget! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mds2 Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 $40 for one evening. I think they are pricing themselves out of a customer base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areynoldsre Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 In my area there is the Sawdust Shop that does this: http://www.sawdustshop.com/ They've been doing it for a few years. Complete shop, retail store and classes. They want like $85 per month with a 12 month commitment and you can buy the hour if you want. The advantage is if you don't have the space to have a shop and can't buy large numbers of tools right away. It's great for hobbyists but few pros would want it. I've taken classes there and like the place but I've not bought a membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerrySats Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Nice idea and its in a good location , it's just a tad too expensive for the regular guy/girl . If I read it right you need to take safety classes to operate the machines , these classes cost money adding to the cost . I can't see this place lasting long , Philadelphia Furniture School is in that area too , I'm interested to see where Philly Woodworks price the classes at . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted December 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Yea The Philadelphia Furniture Workshop is awesome I've taken 2 classes over the last several weeks. The first was a short course on chisels. It was a Tuesday night from 6:30-9:30 for 85 bucks. And the second was this past Saturday from 9am to 4pm on sharpening for like 165. The sharpening class with both Mario Rodriguez and Alan Turner was great, lots of hands on. Mario and Alan actually just started up their new blog today! They hope to have daily updates. check it out, these guys really know their stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptRandy Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Check out Bucks County Community College woodworking courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted December 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Like 2 minutes from my house. I feel stupid for not looking at what they offer! Have you taken any classes there Captin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Okay, this seems like a neat idea. But when I think about it a bunch of issues come to mind. 1 - Who's responsible for keeping tools sharp, tuned, etc... 2 - If you want to build shop jigs to keep them, bring them home, leave them there for somebody else to use.... 3 - I didn't see any handplanes or chisels, who keeps those? Do they keep them sharp? Oiled or waxed? ect... 4 - What if I have some complex operation I want to keep set up for a little while while I assemble or build another part? 5 - I noticed the drill press has no table, the table saws have no sleds, if I build those do I get reimbursed for my time if other memebers have access to them? Or will there be 40 guys making drill press tables and everyone puts their name on it and keeps it for when they want to use the drill press? 6 - What if some shmuck knocks a tool out of tune the day I come in and pay my daily fee? Do I get my money back because I want to spend my time woodworking, not tuning equipment for that shmuck to knock out of tune again the next day. 7 - What about finishing? Will Gert's sawdust get in my poly? 8 - I used to belong to a gym that had only one squat rack, seemed like every time I wanted to do legs, somebody else was doing squats... Okay fine I can work in. What am I going to do when Billy-Jo-Jim-Bob has a 3/4" dado set up in the table saw I need to finish the next step in my bookcase? Do I wait? Time is money. Do I rush Billy-Jo-Jim-Bob and have him risk a finger? Do I just take a 3/4" kerf out of the piece I'm cutting and leave the dado in the saw? 9 - I saw one Tempest, couldn't pick out the HP, but lets just say it's 3HP. That might run 3 machines, but what if Gert and Billy-Jo-Jim-Bob are both running planers, will the Tempest still suck enough dust out of the Jointer? ... The tablesaw? ... The other Jointer? ... The drum sander? ... you see where I'm going with this. 10 - Finally, I like to be in control in my shop. I don't want to be running a jointer and have Billy-Jo-Jim-Bob, bump into me because he's trying to carry a piece of 4x8 ply across the shop. Like I said, at first it seems like a descent idea, but the more I think about it the more I think the only way it works is if everyone pays in as an owner. Then in that senario they all have a stake in the place working well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted December 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 I think I can answer only a couple of those questions. I believe they have a separate finishing room. And as for keeping th tools sharp and building jigs I think they are rewarding voltmeters with free shop time when they finally open and they will continue to offer free shop hours for those who spend some time helping the cause.., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Wow, Brian, That was fast! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMarcel Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 ha ha, voltmeters... autocorrect to the rescue! I was going to mention the place in Sunnyvale (SawDustPlace). IIRC, it also has large format printers and CAD systems so you could print out full-size patterns, 3D printers, and some CNC. Even if that wasn't the case, not everybody has place for a shop in the bay area. My friend in San Francisco has a neighbor with a garage shop; basically it is a stack of small tools piled in a corner so he can get his car and other stuff in there. Basically spends an hour setting up a poorly equipped shop before doing anything then another hour putting it away (I know, I watched him from my friend's patio). For that person, a rental shop would be ideal. As for chisels and planes, I'd bring my own; small toolbag is all it would take. I believe that place has lockers as well, which could be handy if you are working on a large project. It's not for everybody, but if they can keep the business humming at $1,500/yr, no real reason to only charge $1,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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