Stability of a Frame and Panel Door

[klousiajp@gmail.com]

Does anyone have any guidelines regarding how skinny/thick a stile & rail needs to be in order for the a door to be stable? I'm looking at my drawings and while I think the proportions look fine, I'm worried that my door stiles (1/2"x3/4"x17") and rails (1/2"x3/4"x8") won't make for a stable door once the glass gets in and the door gets mounted. It's for a clock so there won't be much in the way of stress on the door but is that just too thin to work?

[TimV]

No guidelines. I go with proportions for the piece I'm building. To me those dimensions sound too small for that size. Draw it out and see if it looks right. I think you're already leaning towards that they are too small. Draw them larger and see how those work. Then when you have a size that you like proportionally, verify your joinery method. Can you join them and which way? etc.

[TheOneHandedHandyMan]

It is hard to predict the stability of a door. The only advice I have is to use the best rift sawn/ quarter sawn lumber you have for the frame pieces. I agree with Tim though, reevaluate those dimensions. You probably want wider frame pieces.

[ChetlovesMer]

While its true that your door will be delicate, it should hold up.

I've done some cabinets with small rails and styles for glass doors before and you'd be surprised how well they hold up.

Here's three tips:

First, use a full lap joint or a full double lap joint. Keep 'em square.

Second, if you are worried about it sagging one day put a pin (dowel) through the lap joint.

Third, use lightweight glass. 1/16" if possible.

So, I agree that you may want to re-evaluate your dimensions. But if this is what you believe you need to meet your design, it will work. I've gone that thin on bigger doors and had great success.

Good luck with the clock. Please post some pics when you get it done.

[Bobby Slack]

I can only add one thing. When I took my design class at Cerritos College they also recommended to make a small mockup of what you are going to build. Also if you want make a full size mockup with cheap lumber (pine or poplar).

Wood to use ... I think also mahogany is extremely stable but what I am nos sure is which look are you going for. What is the color? light, medium dark? In design they call it ... value.

What is the architectural intent? The question is what aspect of your design do you want to stand out? And make everything else quiet so your piece shows what you want.

I like the lap joint as Chet mentioned because is the strongest joint.

[JMadson Custom Wood]

What type of hinge would you like to use?

[klousiajp@gmail.com]

Thanks for all of the input. The case and the door are both black walnut, if that adds anything to the stability question.

My plan was to use a couple of small bronze hinges. Pretty standard fare.

I obviously am a little bit scared of the door as it is, but the idea is to show off the clock and its interior, not have some big door on the front. I have some thicker (1 1/4") pieces already cut and don't love them, but I'm not sure that I'll love the smaller frame either. It will be an experiment.

[bois]

To echo what Chet said, the most important element in the strength of a R&S door is the joinery, not the width of the rails and stiles. I think the most important consideration is the design, and then the joinery should then be a secondary decision to best accommodate the design. If you have massive rails and stiles, you can probably get away with cope and stick joinery since you will have relatively large glue surfaces. If you have narrow frame members supporting a larger or heavier panel, you'll want to think about maybe using pegged mortise and tenons or saddle joints. Nobody will really notice which joinery you chose (unless you do decide to peg the joint) so it really comes down to using the easiest method to support the size and width or the frame members and panel.