tesla77 Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 So I gifted my newly finished Jatoba/Maple cutting board and we used it for the first time tonight. Afterwards we used warm water and soap to clean. Whilst drying, I noticed some glue pressing out from the joints. Then I noticed a crack on the edge. Why is this happening and what can I do to fix/prevent further destruction? Thanks! Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Rule one, never immerse a timber cutting board into water. Wipe it clean. Rule two, only use epoxy or marine grade glue to join. Rule three, Sand the board down to the finest grit paper you can lay your hands on Rule four, ensure your board is coated with vegetable oil, many times. Rule five, ensure the timbers you use are seasoned prior to the creation and also try for similar density timbers so you get an even expansion and contraction rate across the whole board. Personally, I never do end grain boards, way too much room for disaster. All of the butcher's blocks that are end grain that I have seen are about 5 or 6 inches thick and live in a trolley that has a solid frame around the perimeter of the chopping block. Sorry that it went this way. There is no hope for the block other than trying to dry it out and pour epoxy into the gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatworks Today Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 That's a bummer If I had to speculate a bit, the top of the joint where it opened up looks like it may have been a dry layup which could happened a couple different ways.. Clamping pressure was a little too much and it squeezed out (whatever was left was absorbed into the wood not leaving enough for a good bond)the glue just wasn't there towards the top A couple of Q'sHow long did the wood set after being cut?What was the moisture content of the wood (how seasoned was it?)what kind of glue did you use?What kind of finish was used? Personally when I do these, I'll cut the blocks a little oversized and let them sit for a week or so, then re-cut to size. I like to use tightbond III glue and generally assemble each row by hand (I don't clamp anything at this point).. When each row has cured / dried I re-trim the edges on the table saw and assemble the rows to make the actual board (this part I clamp; but with medium pressure)... After sanding and rounding over I finish with a beeswax / mineral oil mixture (claphams saladbowl finish). So far (knock on wood) I haven't had any problems out of a roughly a dozen boards. It almost looks like your wood dried after glueup and pulled apart where bond was a little dry. When it was washed the wood swelled up again, but unevenly. I am afraid that the only fix I have would be to let it dry and fill the gaps with epoxy.. Hopefully it will pull back together and the seperation will be minimal. Generally when I wash my stuff, I don't use soap but I do run warm water over it and scrub with a cloth until clean, then wipe dry and either hang it overnight or leave it propped up on edge to air dry completly. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick LoDico Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 That looks like more than one issue happening there. The obvious glue problem, not enough glue, clamps too tight etc. The other is the crack. That fracture had nothing to do with the glue-up. It's not along the glue line. Perhaps a hairline crack that couldn't be seen or some such. Anyway, there's nothing you did or could have done to prevent this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 chalk it up to a learning mastake just be glad that it was gift that went bad and not a job. everything i build the first time i give away so i can keep track of how it will change or break. then i can build the next ones so that the mistakes aren't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 End grain boards tend to have a lot of internal pressures. And if some of the grain winds up in opposing directions, it can be an accident waiting to happen. Can you post a picture of the entire board? Either way, these internal pressures are always at play and when the board gets wet and subsequently dries, it goes through a cycle of expansion and contraction. If you have a weak joint at any point, the joint will give way and allow the pressure to release. If the force is great enough, the wood itself may begin to lose the battle at the point where the joint is properly glued. And that's what it looks like happened here. Here's a little video I did on the repair of my own cutting board: http://thewoodwhisperer.com/cutting-board-disaster/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keggers Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I was wondering if your cuts were perfectly square or did you have to apply a huge amount of clamping pressure to get the boards to squeeze together. In the past, I've done this same thing. My cuts weren't exactly square and when I did my glue up I had to apply a lot of clamping pressure. After a while, some of the wood cracked due to excessive stress. Just a thought........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam905 Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I too gifted an end grain cutting board this Christmas - Maple and Purpleheart a la Marc's video - and we tried it out last night. It did not survive the first cleaning - I washed it quickly with soap and water sprayed from the faucet and then dried it with a towel but that was enough... It snapped and popped like a bonfire as I watched the board fail spectacularly in my hands I'm sure there are a number of factors that caused this unmitigated disaster but my first two thoughts are: 1) I didn't finish it properly - I used 3 liberal coats of 'heavy' mineral oil, wiping off the excess after the third. It was oily to the touch for a day or two but by the time I got around to using it, it (evidently) needed a few more coats. And 2) There may have been some glue starved joints as all the cracks appear to have started at the glue lines and then found the path of least resistance through the board. Granted, cracks always follow the path of least resistance - so this may not have been a big factor but it certainly gave the cracks a good place to start. Given the vigour with which the board destroyed itself I'm guessing that the moisture content of my garage differs significantly from that of my kitchen - Not altogether surprising considering it's December and I live in southern Ontario. Mind you the unfinished board sat in the kitchen for several days before I applied the oil so I'd have thought it would have acclimated in that time. The mineral oil I used was purchased at a pharmacy and is labeled as 'heavy' mineral oil. Does anyone else have experience using heavy mineral oil? I have to assume there is a 'light' mineral oil as well but I've not been able to find much information on either except that 'heavy' is sold in drug stores/pharmacies because it's used as a laxative. Do other folks use the light version? I will note that when it was applied, the oil didn't soak in very readily. It pooled on the surface and I had to 'brush' it on with a clean cloth much like I would have with a varnish. My guess is that it didn't penetrate very far at all and that basically i was using an essentially unprotected board. In the future I'm going to try a heated oil/wax finish - I understand that the heated oil will penetrate further - and I'm going to make sure I put on several more coats over several days before I put the board into use. I've read that a good rule of thumb is to oil the board once a day for the first week, then once a week for a month, then once a month for a year, then as needed. The idea being that you end up saturating the board. Does this sound about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick LoDico Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 It's not the finish or not enough coats. I very often lay down one heavy coat of mineral oil and I've never had a board come apart like you describe. Perhaps not enough glue, perhaps clamping too tightly, or maybe the glue wasn't cured enough before adding the oil. It's not the woods used either. I've done that combination too. Actually, I've never heard of anything like that ever happening before. One more thing, which glue did you use and how old was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam905 Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Rick, thanks for the reply. Just to be clear the board didn't fall to pieces there are 5 cracks about 2 inches long and about 7-8 cracks that are half an inch long. Most of those cracks are along glue joints, but not all. The glue is pretty new - 6 to 8 months I'd say. (I bought when I was starting to glue up sub-assemblies for a small island/table for the kitchen - the cutting board was a 'stocking stuffer' to go along with the table) The glue has been out in the garage the entire time. We've had a fairly mild fall/winter so far and I don't think the interior of the garage ever went below freezing but likely the temperature fell below the recommended storage range. It's Elmer's carpenter glue that I got at the home center - no issues with any other joints failing on other projects (that I'm aware of) Could have been too much clamping pressure I suppose. I tried to make sure I had a good amount of glue in there but I also had a good amount of squeeze out so it's possible some of the joints were a bit light on coverage by the time I got through with it all. I did have the heater on in the garage I did the glue up but the wood itself would have been quite cold at the time... So maybe not enough glue that was too cold at that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJC5151 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Adam, sounds to me like the wood's moisture level was way too high to be put together, or your house is desert dry. I always use tightbond III for cutting boards because of its water resistance. could have been a lot of things. Sorry to hear though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Pants Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Rule two, only use epoxy or marine grade glue to join. I'm not so sure about this one rule Dave. If you follow the other rules you laid out, especially not immersing it, Titebond II or other pva should work fine. I made basically the same board Tesla did (end grain jatoba/maple) and it's held up fine for a few over a year now with just Titebond. It's not waterproof, but it should have enough water repellence to not cause a big issue in the joinery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam905 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Wonders never cease... One week later and the board has flattened out and pulled itself back together to the point where I can only find two of the cracks and neither are wide enough to fill with epoxy (IMO). I honestly thought I had nothing but firewood on my hands! So I'm currently applying one heck of a lot of mineral oil. It's pretty much been saturated for two days now but I'm going to keep this up for several more. Then I'll apply a final coat of mineral oil and wax and we'll give it another try. Hopefully we'll keep the water out of the wood this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 try dipping it into mineral oil and letting it soak. if you put the glue on the tiny crack and then put a suction on the other end of the crack you can suck glue into the crack might help hold it in place and not expand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatworks Today Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 A beeswax is going to do alot for preventing water from absorbing into the grains. Mineral oil does a fair job, but the wax actually seems to repel the water. I like the above idea of getting some glue in one side and hooking a vac to the other to pull it through; only other thing I would suggest would be to use epoxy; either way it would help to keep moisture from getting inside the board via the crack(s)... Glad to hear it pulled back together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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