Pbmaster11 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I have only done a few commissions and did them for family so just charged for materials... just to learn and practice on someone else dollar. Now I would like to upgrade the shop on someone else's dollar.... This is not my primary income and do not want it to be. I want any money I make on a project to go to upgrading tools, purchasing new ones, or able to purchase supplies for a personal project. I do not know how to start to break down a project for a quote besides materials. When looking at materials I see what is needed for BF or number of sheet goods, hardware, add x for misc (glue, brushes, etc etc) and then add 20 percent. This way I will be comfy on materials and have some room if something goes wrong. As for labor, I do not know where to start. This current project is ALL made out of MDF (3/4 and 1/2) and will be painted by ME OR THE CLIENT (he has not decided yet). It is two cabinets and big square for a headboard (see attached file)... I understand people charge a shop hourly rate... I believe this should be based on work load, job skill, and reputation... my workload is very light, medium skill, and reputation is good solid work. (he saw my past work of FB and contacted me) How would you personally quote this project and if you could break it down?headboard.skp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmykx250 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 The customer already knows what he is getting as far as quality goes so dont sell yourself short on the labor number. Remember your still talking custom work regardless of material selection. I like the 20% markup on ALL materials and dont forget the trip to/from the lumberyard cause gas aint free unless he wants to get it. Be real with the labor time but be fair as well, you always have to look at what your building and put it into reality, whats it really worth on the market. Dont forget the time drawing/designing and finishing is kind of labor intense itself. I know where your at cause your thinking you get some experience out of the deal as well so be fair both to the customer and yourself. There is nothing more satisfying than fabricating a piece and selling it and both partys end up satisfied! I wish you luck and enjoy the build. Remember to take pictures for your portifolio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatworks Today Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I agree on the materials up-charge. 20% is fair and IMO this is what I use to cover trip time back and forth to a LOCAL lumber yard. If it's something that has to be ordered and delivered I'll take that charge and add 10% as freight alone is typically quite a bit (and honestly all I have into it is time at a desk and on the phone; no gas $$ involved)... As far as how to charge for labor, what I typically do is look at the overall design and complexety; then ask myself, "what would I pay for that?" then I'll go through and break the project down into steps / stages and determine what the time will take on both a best case and worst case scenario for each phase. Add everything up and compare that to the "what I would pay" number and see where it falls. If all the numbers are close, you're in good shape. If not, depending on your situation and how bad you want / need the job you'll have to do some pencil whipping. The fact is some projects tend to be more profitable than others. If you set yourself up on a rigid scale of T&M more often times than not you can price yourself out of the job. It's a delicate balance and a lot has to be taken into consideration. If the customer is a perfectionist, they are more than likely used to paying premium price for the sake of having what they want; and they expect to pay for that level of quality. If they are someone that shops at the bargain box stores, you MAY be best to part as friends / acquaintances (not always, but sometimes this type of client can be more work and hassle than the job is worth). Sometimes its best just to walk away... That being said, I hope all goes well! Keep us posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Remember that almost all of your clients will be "friends "in the beginning and you can't continue to just charge for materials. What is the next shop upgrade and how much does it cost? Maybe charge for materials plus the price of the shop upgrade. I would also suggest that you begin logging ALL hours that are put into the project and yes that includes design time and driving to buy supplies. After logging the hours on a couple of jobs you will start to become more conscious of the actual time is put into a job from beginning to end. Good luck with the bid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbmaster11 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Remember that almost all of your clients will be "friends "in the beginning and you can't continue to just charge for materials. What is the next shop upgrade and how much does it cost? Maybe charge for materials plus the price of the shop upgrade. I would also suggest that you begin logging ALL hours that are put into the project and yes that includes design time and driving to buy supplies. After logging the hours on a couple of jobs you will start to become more conscious of the actual time is put into a job from beginning to end. Good luck with the bid! Excellent Idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 As for labor, I do not know where to start. This current project is ALL made out of MDF (3/4 and 1/2) and will be painted by ME OR THE CLIENT (he has not decided yet). To be blunt with a project like this you should be charging what it would take if you had a shop equipt to do the job. The reason being is with the material selection your not offering the customer anything he cant get at Ikea, in fact less. In the long run you will spend more on materials and labor than the customer would if he bought it at ikea. I hate to say it but the ikea quality is going to be better than you can do at home in your garage when working with mdf. If you want to get into building for money then I would suggest you turn away stuff like this. Sell the job, sell the material if the customer wants junk then let them go elsewhere. Working with sub par materials will only give you a bad reputation. You can get away with custom mdf stuff but it needs to be truly custom not just boxes that will fall apart. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbmaster11 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I hate to say it but the ikea quality is going to be better than you can do at home in your garage when working with mdf. Totally disagree with that, I have made multiple pieces for shop, garage, and home uses... way beefier than anything you will find at ikea and will last way longer. MDF isn't a hardwood but if you prepare the surface and edges it can be way stronger than ikea pieces. I build two giant book cases from MDF for a client because she wanted a lower cost project and wanted it painted. They turned out excellent and won't crumble nor did it give me a bad reputation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMadson Custom Wood Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 " I want any money I make on a project to go to upgrading tools, purchasing new ones, or able to purchase supplies for a personal project." That is a perfect goal. Don't worry too much about the details built into a quote, especially the first few quotes that you do. Generally I've found that my projects end up being priced out around 3-4 times the cost of materials. So $200 in materials will work out to a $600-$800 project. There's no problem starting out with that general rule to determine your prices. Try to keep track of your hours and figure out how much you're making per hour. If you're bringing in less than $10 an hour, you're better off working at home depot to buy new tools. Factors that keep a quote low are if you know the customer well, the project is in your wheel house, the customer is flexible, it's close to home, you have the material for this project already, etc. Go higher on the quote if any of these aren't the case. Also, don't feel bad if you can tell if a couple of customers think you're too expensive. Too low and you're not making enough money. Too high and you don 't make any. You have to find the balancing point. I probably get around 8 customers for every 10 quotes. Most importantly, don't show the customer the "man behind the curtain". Don't give too much detail in the quote and don't let them see too much of the work-in-progress. 99% of the people out there only care about how they were treated along the way and the finished project. (that other 1% usually hangs out on sites like this) . It's amazing, if you're nice to people, work in a timely manner and do good work, then people just hand you money. I love it. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbmaster11 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 " I want any money I make on a project to go to upgrading tools, purchasing new ones, or able to purchase supplies for a personal project." That is a perfect goal. Don't worry too much about the details built into a quote, especially the first few quotes that you do. Generally I've found that my projects end up being priced out around 3-4 times the cost of materials. So $200 in materials will work out to a $600-$800 project. There's no problem starting out with that general rule to determine your prices. Try to keep track of your hours and figure out how much you're making per hour. If you're bringing in less than $10 an hour, you're better off working at home depot to buy new tools. Factors that keep a quote low are if you know the customer well, the project is in your wheel house, the customer is flexible, it's close to home, you have the material for this project already, etc. Go higher on the quote if any of these aren't the case. Also, don't feel bad if you can tell if a couple of customers think you're too expensive. Too low and you're not making enough money. Too high and you don 't make any. You have to find the balancing point. I probably get around 8 customers for every 10 quotes. Most importantly, don't show the customer the "man behind the curtain". Don't give too much detail in the quote and don't let them see too much of the work-in-progress. 99% of the people out there only care about how they were treated along the way and the finished project. (that other 1% usually hangs out on sites like this) . It's amazing, if you're nice to people, work in a timely manner and do good work, then people just hand you money. I love it. Joe Thanks Joe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Totally disagree with that, I have made multiple pieces for shop, garage, and home uses... way beefier than anything you will find at ikea and will last way longer. MDF isn't a hardwood but if you prepare the surface and edges it can be way stronger than ikea pieces. I build two giant book cases from MDF for a client because she wanted a lower cost project and wanted it painted. They turned out excellent and won't crumble nor did it give me a bad reputation... Think about it this way. Your not laying down a painted tempered finish that rivals the quality of a factory robot. Its not possible. The joinery you use in a home shop would most likely be dado and other traditional wood joinery. The lack of long fibers to hold mdf together make traditional wood joinery weaker than things like minifix and crossdowels, that you're not using unless you happen to have multi spindle boring machinery. The draw back to mdf doesnt really rear its ugly head until the piece has been moved a few times and the racking takes its toll on the joinery. Over the long term if you want to develop a reputation of building good stuff that will last, you need to use better materials. This is where actually selling yourself and the materials come into play. You could use home center birch ply or even imported maple ply at the cost of 14$ a sheet more than the mdf and using traditional wood joinert produce a product that is going to outlive you. Thats about $100 more in materials for a product you can stand behind or on top of without it breaking. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMadson Custom Wood Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 You can make quality products out of MDF. Just like beauty, quality is in the eye of the beholder. I've used it several times and depending on the application, there's no reason it can't last a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 The end product is going to be painted, what's wronge with mdf? You can reinforce all of the rabbits grooves and dados with finish nails or even screws for that matter and then just fill the holes with wood filler! I just made an shaker style entertainment center using mdf for the carcasses and the non exposed shelving(solid wood edge banding). I did however use solid wood for the doors and for the face frames. There are no exposed mdf edges on the project so the only way for anyone to know it was made from mdf is for them to try and break it in half. I used mdf because I had gift cards to Lowes and frankly there plywood selection was crap! Although a project made from mdf wont last forever lets not kid ourselves, no project made primarily from ply wood will ever make it onto Antiques roadshow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Dont get me wrong I think a guy can build decent stuff out of mdf but I think the place and reasoning behind using it need to be looked at. The key here is the "client" and providing a service with a good product at a fair price. To get 6-8 hundred bucks for the posted design in mdf is not doing any justice to the "client". Below is a link to a similar product that includes the bed frame head board, foot board, wall cabinets and the shelf for about $500. The over all fit and finish in the end is going to be better than the above posted design build with strictly mdf and painted. http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/departments/bedroom/tools/bedroom_rooms_ideas/#/20121_bers01d_01 Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 @ dwacker, I do understand where you are coming from here. You don't want to create a reputation early on as the Guy that charges a boatload and uses subpar materials. But at the same time, he is not looking at making serious money from doing these jobs, he's only looking to further his experience and the tools in his shop. If he's using mdf that's OK as long as the client knows what they are getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbmaster11 Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I understand there are better materials out there but i believe this suits the customer just as well as anything else, him and I have been discussing ply or mdf. I have weighed the draw backs to each. he understands what he is getting. The material was not the question of this thread, quoting it does. I understand material is in that quote but labor is what i was looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Hey this is a wood talk online forum, were allowed to go off on tangents!!!! Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I understand there are better materials out there but i believe this suites the customer just as well as anything else, him and I have been discussing ply or mdf. I have weighed the draw backs to each. he understands what he is getting. The material was not the question of this thread, quoting it does. I understand material is in that quote but labor is what i was looking at. Maybe Im not explaining properly lets try again. What you quote has more variables than the cost of goods and your labor. You really need to look at what you're offering, the general design has a lot to do with what you charge. You shouldn't be charging the full amount of time it might take you to do a job because your not equipped or don't have the experience to do it any faster. Your project should really have no more than $200 worth of mdf if you buy at full retail. Thats about $300 to the customer. At $600 for the job thats 12 hours at $25 per hour, or 6 hours at $50 per hour or 3 hours at $100 per hour. 12 hours is way too long for a project of this nature based on the posted sketch. 6 hours is too long, 3 hours is about right but $100 per hour for MDF straight lined furniture is way too high. Here is an example. I built 5 cabinets unfinished low budget for a customer last friday. All 5 are identical and made from decent oak plywood and hardwood face frames. To save money the customer opted out of doors for the cabinets. These cabinets are going in an old home that has no bedroom closets. I started at 6am and finished at 1pm with an hour for lunch and some time dinkin on the internet.The cabinets are 7ft tall by 4ft wide and retailed to the customer for $285 + tax each. Customers cost on materials is $144 ea Labor $141, time per cabinet is 1.4 hours each at $100 per hour. The value to my customer is their cabinets are made from all 3/4 ply including the backs with hardwood face frames. They are a custom size and they would not be able to purchase the same or even similar cabinets on the open market for the same price. If I would have done them in mdf the cabinets wouldnt be worth more that about $110 each because they could buy a similar cabinet at IKEA. At $110 my labor rate would need to fall to a more competitive rate of about $20 per hour. So I made five times the amount of labor just by using a better buiding product while staying competitive with in every market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Beechwood Chip Posted January 11, 2012 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Let me add a different perspective. As a person with a full time job that keeps me busy and pays my bills, I don't take on contract work unless it is worth it to me. I don't care about market value-I figure if you want to pay market price, go hire someone who wants to do the job at market price. If you want me to do it, you have to pay me enough that I want to do it. When I worked as a contractor, I had lots of time and I was short on cash. So, if I got an offer to work at $20 an hour I was happy to get it. When I switched to a full time job I had enough money but was short on time. There were a lot of things I wanted to do that I no longer had the time for. One of my old customers asked me to do some contract work and I said I wasn't interested. I offered to recommend some people who could do the work. She said that she wanted me, because she had worked with me before, and I said I wasn't interested. She begged and pleaded and kept calling me and wouldn't take no for an answer. So, I thought, "How much would I need to charge so that I would be really happy that I had this opportunity? Not just 'willing to do the work', but really happy that I had gotten the job?" I told her that I would do the work for that number, and she said, "Umm, could you get me in touch with those other people you said you knew?" My rule of thumb for contract work is to come up with three numbers: How much would I need to charge so I would feel, "I'm so glad I got this job - this is great!" That could be $0 if it's really fun work, or it could be $10,000 per hour. There are a lot of things that I'd do for 40 hours at $10,000 per hour, and be really happy for the opportunity. There are a lot of things that I'd do for free, and be happy for the opportunity. There are some things that I won't do at any price. If the person said, "I'm sorry, that's too much, I hired someone else" would I feel that that was OK, or would I feel sad that I lost the job and wished I had offered a better deal. How low could I go before I felt OK to lose the work? Based on those two numbers, I come up with a price. The thing is, it doesn't depend on what the job is worth on the market, it depends on how I feel about the work. If the customer wants a market price, go to the market, not to a hobbyist with a day job. Also, I'm not saying "charge an arm and a leg and screw the customer." Sometimes, a hobbyist will say, "I'll do this for the cost of materials, or even less, because it's a fun project and I want to do it." After all, hobbyists do a lot of stuff without getting paid - they do it for fun. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian VanVreede Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Stated very well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbmaster11 Posted January 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Maybe Im not explaining properly lets try again. What you quote has more variables than the cost of goods and your labor. You really need to look at what you're offering, the general design has a lot to do with what you charge. You shouldn't be charging the full amount of time it might take you to do a job because your not equipped or don't have the experience to do it any faster. Your project should really have no more than $200 worth of mdf if you buy at full retail. Thats about $300 to the customer. At $600 for the job thats 12 hours at $25 per hour, or 6 hours at $50 per hour or 3 hours at $100 per hour. 12 hours is way too long for a project of this nature based on the posted sketch. 6 hours is too long, 3 hours is about right but $100 per hour for MDF straight lined furniture is way too high. Here is an example. I built 5 cabinets unfinished low budget for a customer last friday. All 5 are identical and made from decent oak plywood and hardwood face frames. To save money the customer opted out of doors for the cabinets. These cabinets are going in an old home that has no bedroom closets. I started at 6am and finished at 1pm with an hour for lunch and some time dinkin on the internet.The cabinets are 7ft tall by 4ft wide and retailed to the customer for $285 + tax each. Customers cost on materials is $144 ea Labor $141, time per cabinet is 1.4 hours each at $100 per hour. The value to my customer is their cabinets are made from all 3/4 ply including the backs with hardwood face frames. They are a custom size and they would not be able to purchase the same or even similar cabinets on the open market for the same price. If I would have done them in mdf the cabinets wouldnt be worth more that about $110 each because they could buy a similar cabinet at IKEA. At $110 my labor rate would need to fall to a more competitive rate of about $20 per hour. So I made five times the amount of labor just by using a better buiding product while staying competitive with in every market. I will respond to this in the next quote.... Let me add a different perspective. As a person with a full time job that keeps me busy and pays my bills, I don't take on contract work unless it is worth it to me. I don't care about market value-I figure if you want to pay market price, go hire someone who wants to do the job at market price. If you want me to do, you have to pay me enough that I want to do it. When I worked as a contractor, I had lots of time and I was short on cash. So, if I got an offer to work at $20 an hour I was happy to get it. When I switched to a full time job I had enough money but was short on time. There were a lot of things I wanted to do that I no longer had the time for. One of my old customers asked me to do some contract work and I said I wasn't interested. I offered to recommend some people who could do the work. She said that she wanted me, because she had worked with me before, and I said I wasn't interested. She begged and pleaded and kept calling me and wouldn't take no for an answer. So, I thought, "How much would I need to charge so that I would be really happy that I had this opportunity? Not just 'willing to do the work', but really happy that I had gotten the job?" I told her that I would do the work for that number, and she said, "Umm, could you get me in touch with those other people you said you knew?" My rule of thumb for contract work is to come up with three numbers:How much would I need to charge so I would feel, "I'm so glad I got this job - this is great!" That could be $0 if it's really fun work, or it could be $10,000 per hour. There are a lot of things that I'd do for 40 hours at $10,000 per hour, and be really happy for the opportunity. There are a lot of things that I'd do for free, and be happy for the opportunity. There are some things that I won't do at any price.If the person said, "I'm sorry, that's too much, I hired someone else" would I feel that that was OK, or would I feel sad that I lost the job and wished I had offered a better deal. How low could I got before I felt OK to lose the work?Based on those two numbers, I come up with a price. The thing is, it doesn't depend on what the job is worth on the market, it depends on how I feel about the work. If the customer wants a market price, go to the market, not to a hobbyist with a day job.Also, I'm not saying "charge an arm and a leg and screw the customer." Sometimes, a hobbyist will say, "I'll do this for the cost of materials, or even less, because it's a fun project and I want to do it." After all, hobbyists do a lot of stuff without getting paid - they do it for fun. This is exactly what I am thinking! This is a fun project, it doesn't not pay my bills but allows me to increase my skill and dabble woodworking on someone else's dollar while at the same time making income to increase the shops supplies, tools, or space. That is all I am after in a commission. It is not about what the medium I use to build, it is about what the customer wants and what I am willing to charge for it. I could charge $1 or $10,000 and the results would be the same. It is a fun project and the customer is getting the quality explained from the very beginning... as Dwacker is putting it the quality is going to be less sufficient than if i used other material, yes it will be. But, at the same time the customer is getting exactly what he/she is wanting that he/she can't go to ikea and get some screwed together veneered particle board. I do not have a professional woodworking shop, i have a full time job, but I do work from home. Phone and computer are my primary use of work. I have a decent amount of time for having a full time job. I will charge what i think is worth my time. It may be worth that or it may not be...as a result i may get the project and i may not. Bottom line with this thread is I was asking how one goes about quoting a project and if i could see someone break it down for me into specifics as I am new to the commissions... this turned into a battle of material use and quality given.... whether i charge $1 for a nail or $10,000 for a nail. If the buyer knows what he/she is buying the bottom line is the sale is the sale. Yes there might be unhappy customers but no company is perfect. a customer might now like the tone of finish or the small nail hole here or there. work to fix and improve. I am not a pro nor claiming to be one. rant over. and for the record, yes, we can get off topic on wto EDIT: And I want to point out Dwacker, I am not trying to pick a fight. i see where you are coming from but at the same time that is not where I am coming from. I cannot get these done in 4 hours or whatever time is relative to your shop. I may have to due 3 weeks on the weekend to complete or what have you. Each shop is different and i just wanted to get a feel for how people quote their commission projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 And I want to point out Dwacker, I am not trying to pick a fight. i see where you are coming from but at the same time that is not where I am coming from. I cannot get these done in 4 hours or whatever time is relative to your shop. I may have to due 3 weeks on the weekend to complete or what have you. Each shop is different and i just wanted to get a feel for how people quote their commission projects. I think I broke it down pretty good in my last post how and why to charge what really should be charged. Whether it takes you four hours or 3 weeks your doing a commissioned product. Your "client is not paying to educate you or buy you shop equipment they are buying a product. If you dont have the shop or the experience to get it done in a reasonable amount of time then you eat all that extra time. That is the hobby part, you doing it at your own pace taking however long it takes. In the end the product is what it is and no matter how much time you spent on it its not fair to charge the "client" for any additional time it takes due to working in a hobby manor. That is why you turn to the open market to help you price similar products. This is very basic business, no matter whether your doing it as a hobby or as a pro its business. If money is changing hands its business no matter how you choose to look at it. Your customer doesnt care if your feeding your family or just buy toys for your shop. They want a decent product at a fair price and nothing more. Their not comming to you because you have furniture in the smithonian, they are comming to you because you are offering a product that they want. Either they cant find what they want or they dont want to pay retail and expect that as a hobbyest your going to be cheaper than the open market. Whether you choose to make a profit on your work is entirely up to you. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMadson Custom Wood Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Just to backtrack a little... When i was talking about 3-4 times the materials, that's more about what the customer might expect the cost to be. I just finished a corner cabinet, the cost of birch ply, solid poplar, glass, hinges and other hardware was right around $400. A normal customer in a middle class town would expect a custom cabinet like that to cost anywhere from $1200-$1600. I came in at a price right under $1000. They were good friends, the project was easy in my mind, they lived close, he helped me deliver it, she wasn't picky at all, and they know a lot of people I know which is good, free advertising. I didn't make a ton on this project, but they were very happy and I already got another project as a result. If had the same project for a picky stranger that lived in a high rise downtown Chicago that I never expected to hear from again, I would quote that same cabinet out at $1600+. And you know what, they would probably still buy it and be just as happy. That being said, if I charged more, I might take a little extra time to make sure I didn't get a call-back to fix something, which touches on the quality points that Don is talking about. When you get to the point that you're looking to cut costs to cover overhead, wages, supplies, etc. then you're in a business position to cost out projects based on a formula. For now, you have to find a point with each project that makes you and the customer happy. As a one-man-shop, I'm never losing money on any project I complete, I'm just not maximizing my hourly income. As Beechwood said, charge what makes you happy, puts new tools in your shop, keeps you busy and lets the customer feel good about the money they spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Most importantly, don't show the customer the "man behind the curtain". Don't give too much detail in the quote and don't let them see too much of the work-in-progress. 99% of the people out there only care about how they were treated along the way and the finished project. (that other 1% usually hangs out on sites like this) . Along the same lines... As you discuss the project with the end user, avoid using statements like "that's easy" or "this is a simple project". Someone is asking you to build something specifically for them, because they can't do it themselves and they can't find it elsewhere. Describing the project in such a manner can marginalize your skills and shop investment, undercutting your pricing ability in no time. "I can certainly make that for you", then providing your total price, is much better. Being prepared to provide a rough break down (materials / hardware / finishing / labor) information to support your price, and with answers to possible objections, is a good idea, but don't offer the information up front. Retail salespeople in service oriented stores (think "nice floor or countertop store", NOT WalMart) are often taught GAPSOSS... - Greet (Not really the same for you, the customer knows you) - Assess needs and wants - Present solutions - Ask for the Sale - Work around Objections (Too expensive? Wrong details? What can be changed to better meet your needs?) - Ask for the Sale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I do things a little different with retail customers and they love it. My web sever is a dedicated private gallery where customers can log in and see progress on their project. I post a pic or two at the end of the day nothing extravagent. I get an email each time the customer logs on and use that data to determine whether or not the customer really cares to see the status. Most customers will log on everyday and most will post a comment. One thing poeple find amazing is how rough stuff goes from rough to a table top or something. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I do things a little different with retail customers and they love it. My web sever is a dedicated private gallery where customers can log in and see progress on their project. I post a pic or two at the end of the day nothing extravagent. I get an email each time the customer logs on and use that data to determine whether or not the customer really cares to see the status. Most customers will log on everyday and most will post a comment. One thing poeple find amazing is how rough stuff goes from rough to a table top or something. Don That's an excellent idea. A nice excitement builder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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